locking to first physical sim inserted?

[jmsilver99]

I was reading anecdotes of people buying iPhone 13s on Verizon from Walmart and then inserting an ATT sim when brand new, for first time boot and it locking to ATT instead of Verizon, and similarly someone inserting a TMO sim and it locking to TMO

Does this make sense? Is this how it works? What if you insert an ATT Prepaid sim instead of postpaid?

[october262]

I was reading anecdotes of people buying iPhone 13s on Verizon from Walmart and then inserting an ATT sim when brand new, for first time boot and it locking to ATT instead of Verizon, and similarly someone inserting a TMO sim and it locking to TMO

Does this make sense? Is this how it works? What if you insert an ATT Prepaid sim instead of postpaid?

was the phone bought on a payment plan like a flex-pay plan ??
see this old sprint thread (post #3) https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...+locked+phones

[Haas_Dave]

Walmart, BestBuy and a few larger retailers have an ‘reseller’ initial activation policy that locks to the first SIM used. There is an exception: ones sold prepaid like the Tracfone brands, Cricket and Metro are not done this way as they tend to SKU and inventory those separately in stores.

Typically the person selling the device (especially when selling on financing) is supposed to activate the device with the SIM inside before you leave with it, so that it locks to the carrier it was meant to be and to discourage thefts. However, that doesn’t always happen because people are not aware/care/etc but it isn’t as common as anecdotal evidence suggests.

I honestly wouldn’t risk buying a device this way if you are wanting it for a particular carrier or MVNO. Buying unlocked full price through Apple is your best bet, so that it is never locked to a carrier.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PaulCrawhorne]

Dunno if Walmart is different but

BestBuy does this. keyword is "Activate later"

Apparently MVNOs do not trigger the lock, but MNO-captive subsidiaries might and then no one knows how to ever unlock it.

If the page states unlocked you should be OK.

[jmsilver99]

Dunno if Walmart is different but

BestBuy does this. keyword is "Activate later"

Apparently MVNOs do not trigger the lock, but MNO-captive subsidiaries might and then no one knows how to ever unlock it.

If the page states unlocked you should be OK.

Thanks. So if you put a Google Fi sim in the iPhone it won't trigger the lock, and then later you put a Verizon or ATT sim , would it lock it?


What do you mean by "MNO-captive subsidiaries" - is that like ATT Prepaid or Visible?

[PaulCrawhorne]

Thanks. So if you put a Google Fi sim in the iPhone it won't trigger the lock, and then later you put a Verizon or ATT sim , would it lock it?

It could, especially likely with postpaid.

But should not, if explicitly sold as unlocked.

Fi, never locks anything, against their principles.

> What do you mean by "MNO-captive subsidiaries" - is that like ATT Prepaid or Visible?

Yes Visible, belongs to VZW, Mint & MetroPCS, Cricket technically not MVNOs

but ATT Prepaid is MNO, mothership direct.

[kevink1]

I bought one of these reseller flex locked phones years ago at Best Buy. An iPhone SE sold at a discount for ATT Prepaid. I think that Best Buy reported it to Apple when sold because when I got the phone, and the SIM card, the phone was still sealed in the box. I tried the "trick" that people were reporting of using a Verizon SIM card first (at the time, Verizon didn't lock their phones), and it didn't work. So I think the sale was reported to Apple so it was entered in Apple's servers as an ATT Prepaid phone.

But if not reported properly to Apple first, I think it devolves down to implementing the locking policy of the first SIM inserted. Which, if you insert the SIM of some random MVNO in it, can lead it to be locked to that MVNO. Which was unaware of the sale, and may be difficult to unlock later.

Until very recently, this is why Best Buy didn't want to just sell iPhones to the public without tying it to some carrier plan. I bet people who unexpectly lock phones to a carrier unexpectedly causes some issues with people wanting to return them, etc.

[LTENetwork]

Verizon phones are unlocked after a certain time period. Mine unlocked a short time after I received my Verizon one. Still into my contract term but once it is paid off, I will eventually buy a phone at full price minus tradein from Apple directly so I can get the phone I want completely unlocked. Got this phone for free after bill credits from Verizon. But Im not looking to upgrade my plan again and I want a better model than before. No upgrade fee at Apple store, just transfer nano sim to esim on the new device. I agree that Apple store is best place to guarantee brand new phones that are unlocked with no BS from the seller and/or carrier.

Apple does NOT discount Iphones to resellers. Resellers make money from the wireless plans.

[PaulCrawhorne]

I bought one of these reseller flex locked phones years ago at Best Buy. An iPhone SE sold at a discount for ATT Prepaid. I think that Best Buy reported it to Apple when sold because when I got the phone, and the SIM card, the phone was still sealed in the box. I tried the "trick" that people were reporting of using a Verizon SIM card first (at the time, Verizon didn't lock their phones), and it didn't work. So I think the sale was reported to Apple so it was entered in Apple's servers as an ATT Prepaid phone.

I am unaware of any interaction after the sale between Apple and the cell service providers wrt network locking

> I think it devolves down to implementing the locking policy of the first SIM inserted. Which, if you insert the SIM of some random MVNO in it, can lead it to be locked to that MVNO.

Best Buy pre-sales support stated that no MVNOs do that "first SIM locking", in effect unlocked for them.

Only the captive subsidiaries have been reported having problems, not MVNOs.

And apparently postpaid MNOs most of all.

Prepaid side of MNOs less likely to lock.

Really, best two choices to avoid these issues completely:

A. buy explicit Unlocked phones only

or

B. make sure it is locked to the provider you want before leaving the store

Anything else is a roll of the dice

[LTENetwork]

I am unaware of any interaction after the sale between Apple and the cell service providers wrt network locking

> I think it devolves down to implementing the locking policy of the first SIM inserted. Which, if you insert the SIM of some random MVNO in it, can lead it to be locked to that MVNO.

Best Buy pre-sales support stated that no MVNOs do that "first SIM locking", in effect unlocked for them.

Only the captive subsidiaries have been reported having problems, not MVNOs.

And apparently postpaid MNOs most of all.

Prepaid side of MNOs less likely to lock.

Really, best two choices to avoid these issues completely:

A. buy explicit Unlocked phones only

or

B. make sure it is locked to the provider you want before leaving the store

Anything else is a roll of the dice

I trust Apple store inventory more than Carrier stores and resellers who have other motives.

They are produced in the same factories but could have different software or locking mechanisms. Mine was a specific Verizon model # with a Verizon nano sim. I didn’t notice any software differences or hardware in mine and just had the Verizon nano sim preinstalled. I have tried other carriers on esim and there have not been any issues whether it be carriers based on T-Mobile, AT&T or Verizon.

I am not sure how the locking mechanisms work but between locking mechanisms and the ID numbers that carriers use to identify and activate the phones, its easy to block out a phone from use.

Apple store iphones can be sold at full price without a carrier selected and you just activate via the esim now that new devices are only esim unless bought in some countries outside USA but those do not have mmwave 5G.

If I could save money from a supplier other than Apple that was fully unlocked and an authorized reseller I would but this is not the case. Even Amazon sold ones are carrier locked.

If I went to Bestbuy for instance and purchased full price unlocked Iphone, it should be fully unlocked, but unfortunately it is not.

Thankfully loads of Apple stores exist as well as online shipments and you can choose the one you want easily. Apple is best for support as well.

[PaulCrawhorne]

If I went to Bestbuy for instance and purchased full price unlocked Iphone, it should be fully unlocked, but unfortunately it is not

Not true.

If an authorised reseller states the phone they are selling is network unlocked then it is, none of the issues being discussed here apply.

If you think that you have evidence to the contrary please post links.

This stuff is complicated enough without propagating fear mongering misinformation

[jmsilver99]

I am unaware of any interaction after the sale between Apple and the cell service providers wrt network locking

> I think it devolves down to implementing the locking policy of the first SIM inserted. Which, if you insert the SIM of some random MVNO in it, can lead it to be locked to that MVNO.

Best Buy pre-sales support stated that no MVNOs do that "first SIM locking", in effect unlocked for them.

Only the captive subsidiaries have been reported having problems, not MVNOs.

And apparently postpaid MNOs most of all.

Prepaid side of MNOs less likely to lock.

Really, best two choices to avoid these issues completely:

A. buy explicit Unlocked phones only

or

B. make sure it is locked to the provider you want before leaving the store

Anything else is a roll of the dice

So I am talking about a phone purchased with this "flex" policy
I am really wondering would happen in various situations though, for example I have an ATT Prepaid $300 annual plan. I am six months in. If the phone were to lock to ATT by inserting that sim, ATT should unlock it as their policy is to have 6 months paid for prepaid to qualify for unlocking. So Id rather try to get it unlocked prior to using it on the other carrier and waiting for their unlock policy. I know it is rolling the dice though

[PaulCrawhorne]

So I am talking about a phone purchased with this "flex" policy

I haven't seen that term outside of discussion forums.

On BestBuy, the signs are:

Page does not state Unlocked.

Cheaper prices than elsewhere.

Choices to buy (locked when shipped) with plan from service provider A B or C

Another choice labeled "to be activated later"


> I am really wondering would happen in various situations though, for example I have an ATT Prepaid $300 annual plan. I am six months in. If the phone were to lock to ATT by inserting that sim, ATT should unlock it as their policy is to have 6 months paid for prepaid to qualify for unlocking.

No, the policy is **for a given phone** to be unlocked six months **after it has been activated** presumably intention is after 6mo of continuous service but...

> So Id rather try to get it unlocked prior to using it on the other carrier and waiting for their unlock policy.

By definition you must get it unlocked before it can be used on another carrier.

[LTENetwork]

Not true.

If an authorised reseller states the phone they are selling is network unlocked then it is, none of the issues being discussed here apply.

If you think that you have evidence to the contrary please post links.

This stuff is complicated enough without propagating fear mongering misinformation

Bestbuy does not used the word unlocked on the latest phones like iphone 14 pro. It allows choice of three carriers and mentions nothing about locking that I easily see. Not sure if it says it is locked in fine print or somewhere else. It is definitely not unlocked.

People assume they paid full price so it should be unlocked. Yes, it must specifically say unlocked. Bhphoto for instance sold lots of phones unlocked but could not get discounts on the iphone so sold a ton of unlocked phones from other brands. Now they just carry the Sony branded ones which are unlocked.

The unlocked bestbuy phones are preowned and older model phones. I don’t know of any reseller willing to sell a new iphone 14 pro for instance unlocked at full retail priice. There is no incentive for them to do so. Bhphoto doesn’t sell iphones at all even as an Apple reseller because they can’t get any discounts on price.

[PaulCrawhorne]

Yes I've only see Android phones that specifically state unlocked at BestBuy