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Thread: AT&T Posts about 5G SA and two-layer Uplink MIMO

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    AT&T Posts about 5G SA and two-layer Uplink MIMO

    Sounds like AT&T is getting down to Business:

    https://about.att.com/blogs/2023/sta...novations.html


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    SA has been active here for some time, but they haven't yet allowed consuner devices to connect to it. My S23 has been detecting n2,n5,n66, and n77 in my market, but only where n77 is deployed.

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    AT&T Posts about 5G SA and two-layer Uplink MIMO

    So it sounds like AT&T is testing VoNR in addition to deploying the SA network. They really have no choice as T-Mobile and Verizon are going full steam ahead with their SA deployments.
    HowardForums Veteran Circa 2004

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    AT&T Posts about 5G SA and two-layer Uplink MIMO

    Quote Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
    So it sounds like AT&T is testing VoNR in addition to deploying the SA network. They really have no choice as T-Mobile and Verizon are going full steam ahead with their SA deployments.
    I just switched back to AT&T. The stability and consistency of the data speed is very noticeable. Video Calls and Web Pages have good and consistent quality.

    It’s like the fable of the tortoise and the hare, AT&T eventually catches up. They are slow and steady while the others race ahead and eventually their turn comes to win the race.


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    Quote Originally Posted by techfranz View Post
    I just switched back to AT&T. The stability and consistency of the data speed is very noticeable. Video Calls and Web Pages have good and consistent quality.

    It’s like the fable of the tortoise and the hare, AT&T eventually catches up. They are slow and steady while the others race ahead and eventually their turn comes to win the race.


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    Honestly, if AT&T does the job right, then I really have no problem with them taking their time. I guess you could say quality over quantity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by techfranz View Post
    I just switched back to AT&T. The stability and consistency of the data speed is very noticeable. Video Calls and Web Pages have good and consistent quality.

    It’s like the fable of the tortoise and the hare, AT&T eventually catches up. They are slow and steady while the others race ahead and eventually their turn comes to win the race.


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    I have to say, I learned a lesson last year. And I agree with you. When I had Spectrum Mobile, I was blown away by the performance compared to AT&T through much of 2021, especially with the (relatively) expansive mmWave coverage area locally, and speed. Since mid-2022, AT&T now allows us to use B2 as a PCC with NR, turned up n66 and apparently n30, and went from being months behind Verizon's C-band deployment to getting C-band+DoD radios on nearly every tower locally. They really started out a few months late behind Verizon, but quickly surpassed them from about May 2022 through now.

    It's just frustrating that back in early 2022 AT&T acted like they didn't care about the pace they took bringing C-band online, flip-flopped several times on DoD support for some older devices, talked about "one climb" and suggested that some areas might wait years to get C-band and/or DoD...then just blew the doors wide open and upgraded nearly every macro here in a couple months through mid-2022. I left AT&T expecting them to take at least two years to get where they are right now, and for them to allow the congestion issues that were happening due to the forced B12 PCC to linger for a long time. The B2 PCC seems to have fixed that and restored the way service used to be. AT&T even re-tuned the distant cell site that serves my house, added B29 (finally!) and n77, and now I can even get their C-band on the first floor of my house. Verizon's C-band on the tower right next to AT&T's doesn't even reach that far.

    AT&T upload speeds still suck horribly compared to Verizon. Usually less than 1 Mbps at home and max out at 25 Mbps in ideal conditions, even with n77 aggregated. But even at those abysmal speeds on the low-end, web browsing and streaming video still work fairly well.

    I guess, overall, I'm just disappointed that the areas where Verizon has deployed C-band and mmWave to absorb high-density demand actually seem to be the areas with the most problems, while AT&T ignored mmWave by comparison and still never faced anything like that. And those problems aren't simply congestion. I wrote up what turned out to be a long post detailing each incident that led to this conclusion, but I realize it's more Verizon-centric and not relevant to the AT&T forum here.

    That being said, we still have another two years of device credits to collect, so it's going to be a long wait. But at this point, unless there is some significant improvement to come that stabilizes Verizon's service in crowded, high-density situations by 2025; I think we'll be switching back, too. AT&T still isn't the fastest in our home market, but it has always been reliable for calls and texts, and the congestion issues that I was seeking to escape are too severe when traveling or during an extended power outage -- when you don't have "home internet" to rely upon and need reliable cell service the most.


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    AT&T Posts about 5G SA and two-layer Uplink MIMO

    Quote Originally Posted by blkballoon925 View Post
    I have to say, I learned a lesson last year. And I agree with you. When I had Spectrum Mobile, I was blown away by the performance compared to AT&T through much of 2021, especially with the (relatively) expansive mmWave coverage area locally, and speed. Since mid-2022, AT&T now allows us to use B2 as a PCC with NR, turned up n66 and apparently n30, and went from being months behind Verizon's C-band deployment to getting C-band+DoD radios on nearly every tower locally. They really started out a few months late behind Verizon, but quickly surpassed them from about May 2022 through now.

    It's just frustrating that back in early 2022 AT&T acted like they didn't care about the pace they took bringing C-band online, flip-flopped several times on DoD support for some older devices, talked about "one climb" and suggested that some areas might wait years to get C-band and/or DoD...then just blew the doors wide open and upgraded nearly every macro here in a couple months through mid-2022. I left AT&T expecting them to take at least two years to get where they are right now, and for them to allow the congestion issues that were happening due to the forced B12 PCC to linger for a long time. The B2 PCC seems to have fixed that and restored the way service used to be. AT&T even re-tuned the distant cell site that serves my house, added B29 (finally!) and n77, and now I can even get their C-band on the first floor of my house. Verizon's C-band on the tower right next to AT&T's doesn't even reach that far.

    AT&T upload speeds still suck horribly compared to Verizon. Usually less than 1 Mbps at home and max out at 25 Mbps in ideal conditions, even with n77 aggregated. But even at those abysmal speeds on the low-end, web browsing and streaming video still work fairly well.

    I guess, overall, I'm just disappointed that the areas where Verizon has deployed C-band and mmWave to absorb high-density demand actually seem to be the areas with the most problems, while AT&T ignored mmWave by comparison and still never faced anything like that. And those problems aren't simply congestion. I wrote up what turned out to be a long post detailing each incident that led to this conclusion, but I realize it's more Verizon-centric and not relevant to the AT&T forum here.

    That being said, we still have another two years of device credits to collect, so it's going to be a long wait. But at this point, unless there is some significant improvement to come that stabilizes Verizon's service in crowded, high-density situations by 2025; I think we'll be switching back, too. AT&T still isn't the fastest in our home market, but it has always been reliable for calls and texts, and the congestion issues that I was seeking to escape are too severe when traveling or during an extended power outage -- when you don't have "home internet" to rely upon and need reliable cell service the most.
    I think if Randall Stevenson was still at the helm at AT&T, you probably would’ve seen very slow progress like you were expecting. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with Stankey as of late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkballoon925 View Post
    I have to say, I learned a lesson last year. And I agree with you. When I had Spectrum Mobile, I was blown away by the performance compared to AT&T through much of 2021, especially with the (relatively) expansive mmWave coverage area locally, and speed. Since mid-2022, AT&T now allows us to use B2 as a PCC with NR, turned up n66 and apparently n30, and went from being months behind Verizon's C-band deployment to getting C-band+DoD radios on nearly every tower locally. They really started out a few months late behind Verizon, but quickly surpassed them from about May 2022 through now.

    It's just frustrating that back in early 2022 AT&T acted like they didn't care about the pace they took bringing C-band online, flip-flopped several times on DoD support for some older devices, talked about "one climb" and suggested that some areas might wait years to get C-band and/or DoD...then just blew the doors wide open and upgraded nearly every macro here in a couple months through mid-2022. I left AT&T expecting them to take at least two years to get where they are right now, and for them to allow the congestion issues that were happening due to the forced B12 PCC to linger for a long time. The B2 PCC seems to have fixed that and restored the way service used to be. AT&T even re-tuned the distant cell site that serves my house, added B29 (finally!) and n77, and now I can even get their C-band on the first floor of my house. Verizon's C-band on the tower right next to AT&T's doesn't even reach that far.

    AT&T upload speeds still suck horribly compared to Verizon. Usually less than 1 Mbps at home and max out at 25 Mbps in ideal conditions, even with n77 aggregated. But even at those abysmal speeds on the low-end, web browsing and streaming video still work fairly well.

    I guess, overall, I'm just disappointed that the areas where Verizon has deployed C-band and mmWave to absorb high-density demand actually seem to be the areas with the most problems, while AT&T ignored mmWave by comparison and still never faced anything like that. And those problems aren't simply congestion. I wrote up what turned out to be a long post detailing each incident that led to this conclusion, but I realize it's more Verizon-centric and not relevant to the AT&T forum here.

    That being said, we still have another two years of device credits to collect, so it's going to be a long wait. But at this point, unless there is some significant improvement to come that stabilizes Verizon's service in crowded, high-density situations by 2025; I think we'll be switching back, too. AT&T still isn't the fastest in our home market, but it has always been reliable for calls and texts, and the congestion issues that I was seeking to escape are too severe when traveling or during an extended power outage -- when you don't have "home internet" to rely upon and need reliable cell service the most.
    n30? I've been watching for that here, but I don't think we'll get it, at least until they refarm solely to NR.

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    They cut B30 down to 5x5 about 2 or 3 months ago now here.

    The awful field test screens on iPhone usually show n77 or some stale data from days earlier. So it's hard to tell if I pick up n30. I'm not even certain if my phone supports any NSA n30+n77 combos and AT&T has been quite aggressive about pulling in n77 whenever it's available.

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    AT&T Posts about 5G SA and two-layer Uplink MIMO

    Quote Originally Posted by blkballoon925 View Post
    They cut B30 down to 5x5 about 2 or 3 months ago now here.

    The awful field test screens on iPhone usually show n77 or some stale data from days earlier. So it's hard to tell if I pick up n30. I'm not even certain if my phone supports any NSA n30+n77 combos and AT&T has been quite aggressive about pulling in n77 whenever it's available.
    I learned recently from [mention]VVivian [/mention]you have to bookmark the bands in the main screen and then refer to the last connected time in the dashboard. Very unintuitive design for field test mode by Apple.


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    Quote Originally Posted by blkballoon925 View Post
    They cut B30 down to 5x5 about 2 or 3 months ago now here.

    The awful field test screens on iPhone usually show n77 or some stale data from days earlier. So it's hard to tell if I pick up n30. I'm not even certain if my phone supports any NSA n30+n77 combos and AT&T has been quite aggressive about pulling in n77 whenever it's available.
    Interesting. If you have an iPhone 13 or 14 it should support an n30+n77 combo on NSA. The S22 and 23 does so you should be set. I wonder if they dropped B30 to 5 MHz due to interference with satellite radio. Interesting to see ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by techfranz View Post
    I learned recently from [mention]VVivian [/mention]you have to bookmark the bands in the main screen and then refer to the last connected time in the dashboard. Very unintuitive design for field test mode by Apple.


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    Yep, but it's still finicky. I've been submitting bug reports with every successive iOS beta to tell them to fix Field Test Mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
    I think if Randall Stevenson was still at the helm at AT&T, you probably would’ve seen very slow progress like you were expecting. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with Stankey as of late.
    Right the “One Climb” for FirstNet etc…some places seemed to need to wait awhile for that one climb to occur. And then there was the Direct TV Time Warner acquisition.

    Glad to see AT&T giving full attention to their core wireless business again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by techfranz View Post
    Right the “One Climb” for FirstNet etc…some places seemed to need to wait awhile for that one climb to occur. And then there was the Direct TV Time Warner acquisition.

    Glad to see AT&T giving full attention to their core wireless business again.


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    AT&T isn't really doing the one touch everywhere. They just built a new site in my market (Detroit) and they didn't include 3.7/3.45 equipment. They will get there, just gonna take some time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    AT&T isn't really doing the one touch everywhere. They just built a new site in my market (Detroit) and they didn't include 3.7/3.45 equipment. They will get there, just gonna take some time.
    I've noticed that elsewhere, too. People have been posting photos online of new AT&T sites that didn't get C-band hardware, then AT&T came back around and added it. Likely because permitting was already approved for the original plans before C-band radios could be factored in.

    I have to say, overall, I wish AT&T hadn't publicly said anything about the "one touch" policy, even if it was their intention internally. It really sounded like every site was getting one turn at an upgrade. And whatever you get is all you should expect to see for a while. Meaning, if your local cell site gets an upgrade and 3.7 and/or 3.45 GHz radios aren't installed, don't expect it to happen anytime in the next few years.

    I even remember a couple people saying that Verizon customers should be more optimistic that if Verizon touches a site, they don't necessarily have that "one touch" policy, so it's completely reasonable to expect that they might revisit new/recently upgraded sites to add C-band/CBRS/mmWave or other capacity enhancements at any time. Instead, I see more AT&T sites getting the modernization treatment overall compared to the ones Verizon touched once last year and the remainder that didn't get C-band or CBRS yet, and are still B2/5/13/66...or worse, still only B13/66.

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