Verizon reaches 175M milestone with 5G Ultra Wideband

[@TheRealDanny]

As promised, Verizon now covers more than 175 million people with its 5G Ultra Wideband service. The next big goal: Make its Ultra Wideband service nationwide in the first quarter of 2023.

In addition to providing greater coverage, especially in rural and suburban areas, Verizon said it will enhance capacity by activating 100 MHz of C-Band spectrum in many markets, a step up from the 60 MHz of spectrum available when deployment first started. Once all of its licensed spectrum is made available, Verizon boasts that it will have up to 200 MHz of C-Band spectrum deployed in many markets.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/ve...ultra-wideband


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[VVivian]

Now I want an update on their band n48 rollout, since it’s supposed to be part of 5G Ultra Wideband but we haven’t heard a peep about it since first announced.

Apparently the system that allocates GAA CBRS allows a single user to utilize up to 80 MHz at a time — imagine Verizon’s midband performance with 80 MHz n48 plus their fully-cleared C-Band, their AWS, and their PCS!

[mwdewey]

A couple of salient quotes from the Fierce Wireless article, one sourced from Verizon, do nothing to advance the notion that Verizon is going to be making a big push to install mmWave into smaller cities and towns and rural areas any time soon.





The whole subject of using mmWave in small towns and rural areas is just a pipe dream, but some keep telling us it's going to happen. Nothing that Verizon has said or done up until now has changed that outlook at all.

[Jack Hagar]

A couple of salient quotes from the Fierce Wireless article, one sourced from Verizon, do nothing to advance the notion that Verizon is going to be making a big push to install mmWave into smaller cities and towns and rural areas any time soon.





The whole subject of using mmWave in small towns and rural areas is just a pipe dream, but some keep telling us it's going to happen. Nothing that Verizon has said or done up until now has changed that outlook at all.

Which is why they spent of ton of money buying mmwave spectrum in such places, to NOT use it despite mandatory buildout requirements. I guess Verizon loves spending money on spectrum that will eventually be taken back by the FCC. Yes mmwave will deployed in high traffic are and high population areas FIRST. Water wet, fire hot. Somehow you equate that to not having it there at all ever. Verizon has 850 MHz 28 GHz spectrum( which was sold by the COUNTY ) here. Maybe you can dismiss the 1300 MHz of 39 GHz they also have here since it was sold at the PEA level and thus they might have been interested in the more populated areas of the PEA but they deliberately obtained the 850 MHz of 28 GHz in my county. If they had no plans on using it they simply would not have bought it. I mean they not only bought one block but TWO. Now will they deploy it in the boonies? No. But they can certainly deploy a few mmwave nodes in my town which is the county seat which will take pressure off the LTE and c-band parts of the network

[Jack Hagar]

Now I want an update on their band n48 rollout, since it’s supposed to be part of 5G Ultra Wideband but we haven’t heard a peep about it since first announced.

Apparently the system that allocates GAA CBRS allows a single user to utilize up to 80 MHz at a time — imagine Verizon’s midband performance with 80 MHz n48 plus their fully-cleared C-Band, their AWS, and their PCS!

The thing I don't like about CBRS is A) shared( except in areas where Verizon has licenses even then it's 30-40 MHz tops ) B) lower power. Charter and Comcast have made no secret they plan on using CBRS to offload traffic to lessen their reliance on Verizon. So in these area Verizon will be trying to share the CBRS with them and perhaps others. So how much help with n48 actually be? Other than areas where they have licenses. I'm hoping that 3.1-3.45 GHz won't be the CBRS model and if Verizon can obtain at least 120 MHz of that nationwide that'll hep a lot more than CBRS

[mwdewey]

But they can certainly deploy a few mmwave nodes in my town which is the county seat which will take pressure off the LTE and c-band parts of the network

That's great, have they done any of this yet across the country? And of course I mean anywhere except a densely populated major urban center, stadium, airport, etc.

I do not have any delusions that Verizon will install any of this here, because Verizon does not have a system here, or in half the state for that matter. Verizon will never have 5G in half the state here, no matter what the size of an individual city or town, outside the areas where they have built a system of their own. They farmed out the spectrum they own to other carriers for them to use across the rest of the state. For LTE.

They have not said anything about whether or not they will do this with their C-Band or mmWave spectrum, or anything about whether any of it can or will be used for 5G outside of native Verizon territory.

[blkballoon925]

In addition to providing greater coverage, especially in rural and suburban areas, Verizon said it will enhance capacity by activating 100 MHz of C-Band spectrum in many markets, a step up from the 60 MHz of spectrum available when deployment first started.

I just want to know if this means the 60 to 100 MHz expansion will be accelerated in markets where they are already deployed, or if they just mean it will still be happening in 2024.

They'll need to coordinate with AT&T to get them to vacate the 40 MHz of temporary spectrum prior to that expansion, and unless AT&T is forced or eager to move early I don't think it's going to happen prior to the final clearing deadline.

[VVivian]

They'll need to coordinate with AT&T to get them to vacate the 40 MHz of temporary spectrum prior to that expansion, and unless AT&T is forced or eager to move early I don't think it's going to happen prior to the final clearing deadline.

Especially since it will cost AT&T the ability to broadcast their vanilla n77 as n78 via MFBI, which will reduce their network’s compatibility with 5G devices purchased in different countries — n78 only goes up to 3.80 GHz, AT&T is temporarily using 3.76 – 3.80 GHz for vanilla n77, and AT&T will have to move up to 3.86 – 3.94 GHz after the final clearing is completed. (In markets where Verizon owns 160 MHz of n77, that is. The exact frequencies vary according to how much C-Band Verizon purchased in a given market.)

[Jack Hagar]

That's great, have they done any of this yet across the country? And of course I mean anywhere except a densely populated major urban center, stadium, airport, etc.

I do not have any delusions that Verizon will install any of this here, because Verizon does not have a system here, or in half the state for that matter. Verizon will never have 5G in half the state here, no matter what the size of an individual city or town, outside the areas where they have built a system of their own. They farmed out the spectrum they own to other carriers for them to use across the rest of the state. For LTE.

They have not said anything about whether or not they will do this with their C-Band or mmWave spectrum, or anything about whether any of it can or will be used for 5G outside of native Verizon territory.

You realize this a marathon not a sprint and they have been more concerned about c-band currently. Look how long it took LTE to get widespread. 5G is barely a thing and people like yourself are so impatient. Sorry, but it will take YEARS for their 5G networks to get fully deployed. Just because you area doesn't have anything NOW in 2022( and spoiler alert neither does mine, not even 5G Nationwide )don't mean it never will. My area got band 13 3at least 3-4 years after Verizon began deploying it and another 2-3 years for band 4. Like 2016 or something. heck it's been barely 2 years since band 5 has been starting to get used for LTE here.

[Jack Hagar]

They'll need to coordinate with AT&T to get them to vacate the 40 MHz of temporary spectrum prior to that expansion, and unless AT&T is forced or eager to move early I don't think it's going to happen prior to the final clearing deadline.

In the 30 new PEAs it won't be an issue because att doesn't have right to that 40 MHz of spectrum anyway. In the original 46 PEAs where att doesn't plan on deploying c-band until Dec 2023 or later I'm sure it's not going to be an issue

[mwdewey]

You realize this a marathon not a sprint and they have been more concerned about c-band currently. Look how long it took LTE to get widespread. 5G is barely a thing and people like yourself are so impatient. Sorry, but it will take YEARS for their 5G networks to get fully deployed. Just because you area doesn't have anything NOW in 2022( and spoiler alert neither does mine, not even 5G Nationwide )don't mean it never will. My area got band 13 3at least 3-4 years after Verizon began deploying it and another 2-3 years for band 4. Like 2016 or something. heck it's been barely 2 years since band 5 has been starting to get used for LTE here.

I definitely realize that it's a marathon and not a sprint. The speed with which Verizon got LTE out to users where they did not have a system by setting up the LTE in Rural America program was breathtaking. The partner carriers jumped on the program and built new LTE coverage far more rapidly than Verizon was doing at the time. Pundits here on HoFo predicted that Verizon would snap up all the program participants, and Verizon did buy a few, but the rest are still going strong on their own. I just feel there is a need to now update that program to include C-Band and possibly mmWave but there has been no word about that. How else is Verizon going to get C-Band or mmWave into those areas?

As I said, there is no way Verizon will ever get C-Band or mmWave into use here or across half the state because they do not have a system in that territory. Adding this other spectrum to the LTEiRA program might spur the partners into action and improve Verizon's coverage as well as the partners' service. The partners certainly benefitted from the use of Verizon's 700 Mhz spectrum, so it stands to reason that they would benefit from C-Band and mmWave as well.

[Jack Hagar]

I definitely realize that it's a marathon and not a sprint. The speed with which Verizon got LTE out to users where they did not have a system by setting up the LTE in Rural America program was breathtaking. The partner carriers jumped on the program and built new LTE coverage far more rapidly than Verizon was doing at the time. Pundits here on HoFo predicted that Verizon would snap up all the program participants, and Verizon did buy a few, but the rest are still going strong on their own. I just feel there is a need to now update that program to include C-Band and possibly mmWave but there has been no word about that. How else is Verizon going to get C-Band or mmWave into those areas?

As I said, there is no way Verizon will ever get C-Band or mmWave into use here or across half the state because they do not have a system in that territory. Adding this other spectrum to the LTEiRA program might spur the partners into action and improve Verizon's coverage as well as the partners' service. The partners certainly benefitted from the use of Verizon's 700 Mhz spectrum, so it stands to reason that they would benefit from C-Band and mmWave as well.

A) Which area and which state.

B) Verizon is buying up LTEiRA partners and limiting those remaining partners on it's unlimited plans. A situation were they let them use their 5G spectrum is not happening. All these small rural guys will either eventually sell or go under

C) Switch carriers and be done with it if you have so little confidence in Verizon

No offense but you ask a question we answer and it's "Nope doesn't fit in with my narrative so I'll ignore the answer and argue". Do you want an answer or an echo chamber? Please let me know which one so I know how to deal with you

[mwdewey]

A) Which area and which state.

B) Verizon is buying up LTEiRA partners and limiting those remaining partners on it's unlimited plans. A situation were they let them use their 5G spectrum is not happening. All these small rural guys will either eventually sell or go under

C) Switch carriers and be done with it if you have so little confidence in Verizon

No offense but you ask a question we answer and it's "Nope doesn't fit in with my narrative so I'll ignore the answer and argue". Do you want an answer or an echo chamber? Please let me know which one so I know how to deal with you

A: In 2009, Verizon came into Oklahoma by buying the assets of Alltel, which gave them the blue areas on this map. Since that time, Verizon has never expanded their native service area in the state by building new infrastructure. To provide "same as native" coverage to their customers across the rest of the state, Pioneer Cellular, Pine Cellular, and Cross Telephone became partner carriers in the LTE in Rural America program. Those areas are now shown as native on Verizon's coverage maps.




B: There are 21 LTE in Rural America partners in the program. To date, Verizon has purchased 4 of them.

C: I do not engage in personal attacks

[Jack Hagar]

A: In 2009, Verizon came into Oklahoma by buying the assets of Alltel, which gave them the blue areas on this map. Since that time, Verizon has never expanded their native service area in the state by building new infrastructure. To provide "same as native" coverage to their customers across the rest of the state, Pioneer Cellular, Pine Cellular, and Cross Telephone became partner carriers in the LTE in Rural America program. Those areas are now shown as native on Verizon's coverage maps.


B: There are 21 LTE in Rural America partners in the program. To date, Verizon has purchased 4 of them.

There WERE 21. If they bought 4 then there are no longer 21. They just bought a small carrier in Texas. I know it's not LTEiRA, but it shows they are interested in buying smaller carriers. If the 3 you mention are being greedy or simply do not want to sell that's not Verizon's fault. Considering Verizon's lack of spectrum in these areas it make since that Verizon would have them upgraded last. Verizon is still using NSA for 5G which requires a LTE subcarrier. If they don't have it in these areas well I'm not sure how that is supposed to work

C: I do not engage in personal attacks

I'm not personally attacking you. when you ask questions, which I assume because you do not know the answer to otherwise why ask? Then when given an answer you don't like you immediately say "No you are wrong". Well if you are asking that means you don't know so there is no way you can tell someone they are wrong, since using logic you can not know. So me asking you if you want an answer you want to hear or an actual answer is not an attack. It's logical question for me to ask because you ask like you actually want an answer but then you answer back with a response that feel like you just want people to give you an answer that aligns with your worldview. It's not an attack to ask you to clarify what it is your are looking for.

Also suggesting you switch carriers is also not an attack. I'm trying to save you aggravation.

Person A:"This carrier sucks"
Person B:"Switch carriers then"
Person A:"How dare you personally attack me!"

Does that make sense? It doesn't to me.

[DRC72]

Enough with the bickering! Please keep the thread on topic! Keep all off-topic chatter in PM. I’m not gonna ask again.