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Thread: Verizon customers to see speed and performance benefits from 200 MHz C-band spectrum

  1. #16
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    The issue is it does not improve the network for the vast majority of their customers who still have zero C Band coverage. Their are PEA’s where their are only still islands of C Band with no noticeable expansion since original deployment. In addition I believe the City of Cincinnati which is located within Hamilton County Ohio only has 140 MHz of C Band.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Yet you like to talk like you do.



    So you admit you're are is not rural yet you think you can speak of what is needed there. The rest of what you posted is irrelevant. How do you live in a NOT rural area but live so far from a tower you can only use lowband?
    I don’t LIVE in a rural area.

    I have family and friends in very rural areas. I spend a good portion of my time in rural areas. I work in some rural areas. When you are miles from civilization, there isn’t much competition for the bandwidth, this I’ve experienced first hand.

    Again, these are the data points I have. I know nothing about where you live, work, or travel. Maybe it is more heavily populated or traveled, I have no idea. But there are places I know of that would rarely if ever *need* the kinds of speeds provided by mmWave or probably even C-Band. It really depends on how rural, and how heavily populated the area is.

    If you are talking about towns within rural areas, those are towns, with hundreds or thousands of residents and that is a completely different story than miles of wide open nothing. And as for how my suburban subdivision can only get low band? Well, that’s a question for Verizon.

    The cell sites are only a couple miles away, but nothing else makes it through the thick woods that surround the community. In the middle of winter, when all the leaves fall and the plants die, you can sometimes pick up AWS or PCS signals on one side of the house, but most of the year they are non existent.


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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonehappy View Post

    Again, these are the data points I have. I know nothing about where you live, work, or travel. Maybe it is more heavily populated or traveled, I have no idea. But there are places I know of that would rarely if ever *need* the kinds of speeds provided by mmWave or probably even C-Band. It really depends on how rural, and how heavily populated the area is.

    If you are talking about towns within rural areas, those are towns, with hundreds or thousands of residents and that is a completely different story than miles of wide open nothing.
    Living in a true rural subdivision about 20 miles from a major city that has UW I agree I'd be very happy with just reliable uncongested LTE. My issue is the nearest tower to me is 5 miles away at the nearest small town. No other tower for 15 miles. That one tower was fine covering outlying areas like mine with 3G because of the of the greater range of 3G. 5 miles is getting on the fringe of LTE. Some that once had 3G can't receive LTE.
    The small town mentioned where the tower is located is only several hundred people which like many small rural towns serves more as a state highway gas hub and stores to serve the surrounding rural area. So it is not a different story. Those outlying areas the tower serves is several thousand people. There is no cable so without expensive satellite broadband for internet many people use HotSpot which stresses the capacity of that tower and isn't reliable or a strong signal.
    My beef is with all the resources Verizon and other networks have been spending on providing stellar 5G to more metro areas to up their capacity they have ignored tower infill and capacity to rural areas like mine.
    Without tower infill and capacity even Home Internet on LTE is a pipe dream.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by techguru30 View Post
    The issue is it does not improve the network for the vast majority of their customers who still have zero C Band coverage. Their are PEA’s where their are only still islands of C Band with no noticeable expansion since original deployment. In addition I believe the City of Cincinnati which is located within Hamilton County Ohio only has 140 MHz of C Band.
    Verizon cannot fully deploy C-Band until late 2024. Other users are using the spectrum until then. The initial 46 PEAs that were eligible for deployment is all they can do until late 2022 when more, but not all, areas are eligible. Again, they do not have the right to deploy all of their C-Band licenses until late 2024.

    It remains to be seen if Vz will put C-Band on all or most of their cells. In towns it could make sense to be able to sell some home Internet. Between towns with a three mile range it might not be worth it to them, at least initially. In minor to major metro areas I expect there will be lots of C-Band. They have to because the existing spectrum is congested and hurting their reputation as a premium cell service.

    140 MHz of C-Band is not a trivial amount. Band 13 is only 10 MHz.

  5. #20
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    No, the remainder of C-Band has to be cleared by 5 December 2023. That’s the deadline to which the satellite users agreed. The 2024 timeframe Verizon tosses around is specifically referring to how long it will take them to add C-Band (and upgraded backhaul, if necessary) to x many cell sites, which is a separate matter from their gaining legal access to the spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    No, the remainder of C-Band has to be cleared by 5 December 2023. That’s the deadline to which the satellite users agreed. The 2024 timeframe Verizon tosses around is specifically referring to how long it will take them to add C-Band (and upgraded backhaul, if necessary) to x many cell sites, which is a separate matter from their gaining legal access to the spectrum.
    Ok, thanks for the detailed info.

    The net effect is the same though. Verizon plans to have their C-Band substantially deployed by late 2024.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/ve...est-5g-network

  7. #22
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    I suppose that depends on how you view it. Verizon's gaining full access to n77 by no later than 5 December 2023 — probably sooner, given that they've been paying extra to expedite the repacking process — means that even though they can't reach a given coverage target by EOY 2024, they can still prioritize n77 builds to places with network congestion.

    Like, even if a town doesn't get full coverage with C-Band right away on 5 December 2023, Verizon can and probably will add C-Band to the busiest cell sites first in order to keep them operational or return them to usable speeds. They'll probably also prioritize cell sites with a significant number of probable 5G Home future customers within range, in order to expedite the ROI process — Verizon monetizing 5G Home is the main reason they splurged on a whopping 200 MHz of n77 spectrum in the most rural parts of the continental USA.

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    Isn't VZW going to upgrade the towers with C Band equipment in the meantime until the spectrum does become available and then just turn it on when that time comes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    Verizon cannot fully deploy C-Band until late 2024. Other users are using the spectrum until then. The initial 46 PEAs that were eligible for deployment is all they can do until late 2022 when more, but not all, areas are eligible. Again, they do not have the right to deploy all of their C-Band licenses until late 2024.

    It remains to be seen if Vz will put C-Band on all or most of their cells. In towns it could make sense to be able to sell some home Internet. Between towns with a three mile range it might not be worth it to them, at least initially. In minor to major metro areas I expect there will be lots of C-Band. They have to because the existing spectrum is congested and hurting their reputation as a premium cell service.

    140 MHz of C-Band is not a trivial amount. Band 13 is only 10 MHz.
    But can Verizon add more C-Band into those PEA's than they do now? Are they allowed to upgrade more sites in those market areas than they have already? Can they upgrade all the sites in those market areas with C-Band? Several posters in this forum have noted that Verizon has not added any new C-Band sites in their market area since the initial launch. Of course I understand that they are under restrictions of operation near airports, but are there restrictions within the market areas where they are allowed to use C-Band now? Verizon has only upgraded a few sites in the PEA where they are allowed to use C-Band here in Oklahoma, only adding a couple additional sites since they initially launched C-Band in the area. There are un-upgraded sites all over the place within these market areas, so why are they not adding more C-Band in them?

    One of the touted benefits of 5G was supposed to be its use to provide data for self-driving cars and other purposes, whatever those are I do not know or understand, but whatever. One would think this would require that fast 5G be at least installed along highways in rural areas to accomplish this purpose. Self-driving cars are useless as they exist right now in urban situations. The function becomes much easier to implement on open roadways in rural areas. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    But can Verizon add more C-Band into those PEA's than they do now? Are they allowed to upgrade more sites in those market areas than they have already? Can they upgrade all the sites in those market areas with C-Band? Several posters in this forum have noted that Verizon has not added any new C-Band sites in their market area since the initial launch. Of course I understand that they are under restrictions of operation near airports, but are there restrictions within the market areas where they are allowed to use C-Band now? Verizon has only upgraded a few sites in the PEA where they are allowed to use C-Band here in Oklahoma, only adding a couple additional sites since they initially launched C-Band in the area. There are un-upgraded sites all over the place within these market areas, so why are they not adding more C-Band in them?

    One of the touted benefits of 5G was supposed to be its use to provide data for self-driving cars and other purposes, whatever those are I do not know or understand, but whatever. One would think this would require that fast 5G be at least installed along highways in rural areas to accomplish this purpose. Self-driving cars are useless as they exist right now in urban situations. The function becomes much easier to implement on open roadways in rural areas. Just a thought.
    Can they is not the question. Will they is. They will do what is in their economic interest. They don't have unlimited money to do everything everywhere. Spending massive amounts of money to improve coverage and speed in locations with a cow, two pigs, and a chicken in fly-over country is unlikely to be a high priority. They have tens of millions of paying customers in metro areas where the spectrum is overutilized and congested. That is likely where the money will go first.

    They are unlikely to spend massive amounts of money building new towers and cells in sparsely populated areas for ubiquitous high speed 5G. Flying cars and fusion power too cheap to meter have been touted since the 1950s. Didn't happen no matter how much we wished for it. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    .................. Verizon monetizing 5G Home is the main reason they splurged on a whopping 200 MHz of n77 spectrum in the most rural parts of the continental USA.
    But as I described my rural location issues in my prior post (#18), which is not even a "most rural" part of the USA; how will even splurging on n77 address that? Home internet has a greater need in areas like mine then in a metro area with other broadband alternatives especially in this day and age when having internet or even a reliable cell signal has become a need and not just a want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    Can they is not the question. Will they is. They will do what is in their economic interest. They don't have unlimited money to do everything everywhere. Spending massive amounts of money to improve coverage and speed in locations with a cow, two pigs, and a chicken in fly-over country is unlikely to be a high priority. They have tens of millions of paying customers in metro areas where the spectrum is overutilized and congested. That is likely where the money will go first.

    They are unlikely to spend massive amounts of money building new towers and cells in sparsely populated areas for ubiquitous high speed 5G. Flying cars and fusion power too cheap to meter have been touted since the 1950s. Didn't happen no matter how much we wished for it. Just a thought.
    Then the question becomes why did Verizon upgrade that site I posted the map of in Post #9 in this thread with C-Band? I have been there, it is in a totally rural area, it covers no cities or towns. What possible use could it be according to your criteria? Just exactly why was that site upgraded? Did Verizon waste their money?

    Verizon also upgraded a site with C-Band in the town of Medicine Park, Oklahoma, population 417, in this PEA. Why upgrade a site in such a small community if Verizon only needs to focus on dense urban areas first as you suggest?
    Looking at Verizon's coverage maps, there are instances all over the country where they have upgraded sites with C-Band in very small towns and rural areas, so does Verizon really believe and practice the criteria you mention? I don't believe they do, not at all, the evidence to the contrary is all over the place. This old line of argument just does not apply any more, the carriers moved past that many years ago, and if you study Verizon's coverage maps you'll find that the initial C-Band deployment covers all types of territory, urban, small town, and rural, a mix, so I expect them to continue that mix when they are able to expand nationwide. They have done nothing up till now that indicates otherwise.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    Then the question becomes why did Verizon upgrade that site I posted the map of in Post #9 in this thread with C-Band? I have been there, it is in a totally rural area, it covers no cities or towns. What possible use could it be according to your criteria? Just exactly why was that site upgraded? Did Verizon waste their money?

    Verizon also upgraded a site with C-Band in the town of Medicine Park, Oklahoma, population 417, in this PEA. Why upgrade a site in such a small community if Verizon only needs to focus on dense urban areas first as you suggest?
    Looking at Verizon's coverage maps, there are instances all over the country where they have upgraded sites with C-Band in very small towns and rural areas, so does Verizon really believe and practice the criteria you mention? I don't believe they do, not at all, the evidence to the contrary is all over the place. This old line of argument just does not apply any more, the carriers moved past that many years ago, and if you study Verizon's coverage maps you'll find that the initial C-Band deployment covers all types of territory, urban, small town, and rural, a mix, so I expect them to continue that mix when they are able to expand nationwide. They have done nothing up till now that indicates otherwise.
    You can't just look at the population of a town. Also depends on what amenities are near the town. Medicine Park for example is a recreation and resort area and a mile or so from an interstate. The 417 pop is only the people that live there FT and operate the stores, hotels etc., not the number and type of users that frequent the area. Same could be true of the other areas you mention especially if along an interstate or major road. Also, don't hang your hat on a networks's coverage maps. JMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpz1 View Post
    You can't just look at the population of a town. Also depends on what amenities are near the town. Medicine Park for example is a recreation and resort area and a mile or so from an interstate. The 417 pop is only the people that live there FT and operate the stores, hotels etc., not the number and type of users that frequent the area. Same could be true of the other areas you mention especially if along an interstate or major road. Also, don't hang your hat on a networks's coverage maps. JMHO.
    I applaud Verizon for placing C-Band on both the sites I referenced. One is indeed in a small recreation community, but the other is in a totally rural area miles from the Interstate, and it's signal does not reach that Interstate. It is a cows and cornfields site to use the common expression.

    Both are just obvious reminders that Verizon does not feel that urban dwellers or Interstate highway drivers are the only or first users that need to be serviced. For anyone on HoFo or any other enthusiast site to state otherwise is just wrong based on Verizon's track record up till now. They buy spectrum to be USED, not to sit idle, and that is perhaps the company's best attribute. I am just sick of the whole "cows and cornfields" argument when it is so obvious that Verizon or any other carrier does not use that criteria at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    I applaud Verizon for placing C-Band on both the sites I referenced. One is indeed in a small recreation community, but the other is in a totally rural area miles from the Interstate, and it's signal does not reach that Interstate. It is a cows and cornfields site to use the common expression.

    Both are just obvious reminders that Verizon does not feel that urban dwellers or Interstate highway drivers are the only or first users that need to be serviced. For anyone on HoFo or any other enthusiast site to state otherwise is just wrong based on Verizon's track record up till now. They buy spectrum to be USED, not to sit idle, and that is perhaps the company's best attribute. I am just sick of the whole "cows and cornfields" argument when it is so obvious that Verizon or any other carrier does not use that criteria at all.
    I agree they buy spectrum to be used. The question is as to the when. Again take my area example in post #18, it is NOT a cow and cornfield area. Verizon has not even provide LTE capacity to the area. There are plenty of users here to take advantage of even LTE Home internet. Again the when. Based on their LTE track record here, even if they own the spectrum, I don't see c-band here before 2030. But they'll be implementing the next generation of tech by then and areas like mine will be pushed back to the bottom of the list. Based on your examples alone, it is not obvious that Verizon or any other carrier does not use the urban, interstate or other major user criteria. JMHO.

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