Verizon and at&T give airlines another year

[Andy84094]

To me, the only silver lining here is Verizon and AT&T having to accelerate their mmWave deployments in and around airports instead of kicking the can down the road via blanketing airports with n77 from a macro and calling it a day. mmWave has so much capacity that once an airport is blanketed in it, you shouldn’t ever see congestion there again. I prefer solutions that last the longest even if they cost more.

mmWave won't do anything for usability on the tarmac, which is where things slow down a lot. Sure you can upgrade indoor systems to support mmWave and not have to rely on C-Band, but have you ever been on board a B787 or an A350 where mid band even struggles to work.

[@TheRealDanny]

I don't see T-Mobile customers leaving in droves due to coverage.

These delays by the incumbents will only serve to cede 5G network superiority to Magenta for an even longer time.

Boy have the industry tides turned compared to a decade ago.

[VVivian]

mmWave won't do anything for usability on the tarmac, which is where things slow down a lot. Sure you can upgrade indoor systems to support mmWave and not have to rely on C-Band, but have you ever been on board a B787 or an A350 where mid band even struggles to work.

CBRS can help there. Its shorter range is no big deal at distances like that.

[Jack Hagar]

I don't see T-Mobile customers leaving in droves due to coverage.

These delays by the incumbents will only serve to cede 5G network superiority to Magenta for an even longer time.

Boy have the industry tides turned compared to a decade ago.

This is marathon not a sprint. In 2030 no one will give a rats *** who was #1 in 2022. Who was the LTE leader in 2014? Does it matter now? Apparently not. T-Mobile still have issues with both actual coverage and perception of it's network. And by the time those issues are fixed Verizon and at&t will have caught up

[@TheRealDanny]

This is marathon not a sprint. In 2030 no one will give a rats *** who was #1 in 2022. Who was the LTE leader in 2014? Does it matter now? Apparently not. T-Mobile still have issues with both actual coverage and perception of it's network. And by the time those issues are fixed Verizon and at&t will have caught up

You're right perception often lags reality.

But the same 5 people on this forum complaining about coverage issues may not represent the consumer at large; and it'd be advantageous for Verizon to not allow T-Mobile to continue to eat its lunch 5G press release after another for the next 4 years.

[loboheeler]

C-Band deployments have been primarily delayed by supply chain issues caused by COVID-19, as far as I know.

Time to stop blaming supply chain issues on a Pandemic that hardly exists now. There are lots more things that have caused these things.

[Jack Hagar]

it'd be advantageous for Verizon to not allow T-Mobile to continue to eat its lunch 5G press release after another for the next 4 years.

And what do you suggest Verizon to to prevent that? Buy some magic beans? Verizon is deploying c-band as fast as it can where it can. Which apparently too many people seem to forget there are restrictions in place until Dec 2023

[Jack Hagar]

Time to stop blaming supply chain issues on a Pandemic that hardly exists now. There are lots more things that have caused these things.

Verizon c-band deployment has been pretty fast. Exactly what is your issue with it? I think you expect to much. Verizon plans on having at least 175 mil pops covered with c-band by the end of 2022 so that in less than year. How many pops of n41 did T-Mobile have 1 year after the Sprint merger? And remember a lot of that was already deployed by Sprint. As it is less than 3 months after launch and with FAA restrictions in place they still had 1/3 of the population covered with c-band

[mwdewey]

Just for info purposes, here is a graphic from Verizon's coverage maps of the one PEA in Oklahoma where Verizon is allowed to install C-Band. I outlined the PEA boundary in black. It appears that there is still a LOT of expansion that Verizon can do in this PEA before the date when they are allowed to build anywhere they want. As a matter of fact, according to these coverage maps, they have not increased C-Band coverage from what it was when it was first introduced into this PEA. Two whole counties have had no sites upgraded. Why they have not expanded, whether it is because of supply-chain issues or simply lack of interest, or them having not updated the coverage maps, I will not get into. I am just showing what Verizon is stating.

[techguru30]

Verizon c-band deployment has been pretty fast. Exactly what is your issue with it? I think you expect to much. Verizon plans on having at least 175 mil pops covered with c-band by the end of 2022 so that in less than year. How many pops of n41 did T-Mobile have 1 year after the Sprint merger? And remember a lot of that was already deployed by Sprint. As it is less than 3 months after launch and with FAA restrictions in place they still had 1/3 of the population covered with c-band

The problem is consumers do not care how fast it is supposedly expanding when their market has had zero improvement or expansion of C Band. In addition Verizon Wireless was already in a bad position nationwide due to a lack of mid band spectrum to support all of their current subscribers compared to AT&T or T Mobile.

[techguru30]

Just for info purposes, here is a graphic from Verizon's coverage maps of the one PEA in Oklahoma where Verizon is allowed to install C-Band. I outlined the PEA boundary in black. It appears that there is still a LOT of expansion that Verizon can do in this PEA before the date when they are allowed to build anywhere they want. As a matter of fact, according to these coverage maps, they have not increased C-Band coverage from what it was when it was first introduced into this PEA. Two whole counties have had no sites upgraded. Why they have not expanded, whether it is because of supply-chain issues or simply lack of interest, or them having not updated the coverage maps, I will not get into. I am just showing what Verizon is stating.

Verizon Wireless just recently updated their coverage maps which blankets my entire area in dark red indicating UWB coverage. None of the towers where I live at even have C Band or mmWave antennas. What is going on at Verizon Wireless where they are painting nationwide 5G coverage areas as UWB coverage?

[Theghostlad82]

You're right perception often lags reality.

But the same 5 people on this forum complaining about coverage issues may not represent the consumer at large; and it'd be advantageous for Verizon to not allow T-Mobile to continue to eat its lunch 5G press release after another for the next 4 years.

Can also argue that the same 3 people on this forum trying to convince everyone that T-Mobile has no coverage issues may not represent the consumer at large either. What’s funny about that is those same 3 people…..all have lines on other carriers as well, likely due to T-Mobile coverage issues. AT&T has been regularly beating T-Mobile in new phone adds quarter after quarter, which shows T-Mobiles 5G claims may not matter much at all. AT&T expanded total coverage and solidified their rural presence with first net, they put 5G on the back burner for now, and they became the leader in new customer phone adds ever since, coincidence? I’m sure the T-Mobile crowd has an excuse for this, blaming someone or something else, but, numbers generally don’t lie.


People can also argue Verizon hasn’t seen any major growth in a bit, and is losing customers, but this doesn’t mean they are leaving for T-Mobile, what we are also seeing in a huge rise in the 2 cable giants mobile numbers. Those customers are coming from somewhere, and both spectrum and xfinity are Verizon mvnos. Verizon doesn’t report wholesale numbers so it’s hard to say exactly where those customers are going, but it’s not a stretch to say a lot of the customers the cable giants are getting, they are poaching from their carrier provider.

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[techguru30]

Can also argue that the same 3 people on this forum trying to convince everyone that T-Mobile has no coverage issues may not represent the consumer at large either. What’s funny about that is those same 3 people…..all have lines on other carriers as well, likely due to T-Mobile coverage issues. AT&T has been regularly beating T-Mobile in new phone adds quarter after quarter, which shows T-Mobiles 5G claims may not matter much at all. AT&T expanded total coverage and solidified their rural presence with first net, they put 5G on the back burner for now, and they became the leader in new customer phone adds ever since, coincidence? I’m sure the T-Mobile crowd has an excuse for this, blaming someone or something else, but, numbers generally don’t lie.


People can also argue Verizon hasn’t seen any major growth in a bit, and is losing customers, but this doesn’t mean they are leaving for T-Mobile, what we are also seeing in a huge rise in the 2 cable giants mobile numbers. Those customers are coming from somewhere, and both spectrum and xfinity are Verizon mvnos. Verizon doesn’t report wholesale numbers so it’s hard to say exactly where those customers are going, but it’s not a stretch to say a lot of the customers the cable giants are getting, they are poaching from their carrier provider.

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I do not believe Verizon Wireless can legally report on wholesale customer numbers since they are not Verizon Wireless customers. They might be able to disclose revenue from their wholesale side but that is it.

[Theghostlad82]

I do not believe Verizon Wireless can legally report on wholesale customer numbers since they are not Verizon Wireless customers. They might be able to disclose revenue from their wholesale side but that is it.

They could if they wanted to, they just never have. TMobile used to report wholesale users (believe they have stopped though) and at&t still does. While they are not directly Verizon customers, they are considered Verizon users. When they report Verizon has over 140 million users, this includes wholesale customers, same with TMobile customer totals,as well as at&t.

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[CanadianAngela]

Especially since most people don’t give a crap about 5G directly and only want their phones to work. Verizon LTE is already more than good enough in most places for people to always be able to use their phones, so it’s not like there’s an emergency need for immediate ubiquitous n77.

Midband 5G NSA is really only a capacity boost for existing use cases. It doesn’t do anything LTE can’t do. Transformative use cases are only possible on 5G Standalone with edge computing, and/or with millimeter wave 5G. So it’s not like delayed availability of midband 5G NSA is preventing Verizon customers from doing everything they want with their phones, except of course in spots of congestion that won’t be relieved by LTE densification alone.

T-Mobile is making such a big deal out of n41 because their LTE network sucks relative to those of the duopoly. Pockets of speed and capacity are all they’ve got to distinguish their network, in addition to lower prices and better perks of course. But the average person cares more about reliability than cost, and therefore is willing to pay the higher prices for Verizon/AT&T to not have to deal with T-Mobile’s Swiss cheese network.

It's the capacity boost that's most needed by AT&T and Verizon. mmWave in venues like airports and stadiums would also be acceptable.

You're right about T-Mobile of course, their network is so poor that all they can do is to yell about 5G. Of course a frequent traveler would be unlikely to have T-Mobile service and would not even know if there were any capacity issues at airports.