Confused About Flex Lock Policy and Visible Activation.

[smtelegadis]

So I just purchased an iPhone 12 from VIPoutlet/Ebay and it is listed as NEW and carrier unlocked. I found the deal on Slickdeals and I only realized later that there is a possibility the phone is a Flex Lock Policy phone which will lock to the first US sim card inserted into the phone.

How do I determine if my phone is US Flex Policy restricted and will it lock to Visible Wireless or be Unlocked because of the carrier type? I don't plan on using it with an alternate carrier but I would like the option if travel overseas.

[october262]

So I just purchased an iPhone 12 from VIPoutlet/Ebay and it is listed as NEW and carrier unlocked. I found the deal on Slickdeals and I only realized later that there is a possibility the phone is a Flex Lock Policy phone which will lock to the first US sim card inserted into the phone.

How do I determine if my phone is US Flex Policy restricted and will it lock to Visible Wireless or be Unlocked because of the carrier type? I don't plan on using it with an alternate carrier but I would like the option if travel overseas.

the only way to get a truly unlocked iphone is to buy the sim free version from apple themselves.
in your case, supposedly, you would need to use a Verizon sim first to keep it unlocked. - https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comm...iphone_from_a/

[clonehappy]

I assume the flex activation policy would apply the standard Verizon locking policy if you use a Verizon (or Visible, or Tracfone) SIM. Meaning it will be locked to Verizon for 60 days then automatically and permanently unlock. All Verizon owned services use that locking policy.

However, I have no first hand experience with the flex activation policy, as I’ve only ever purchased recent iPhones directly from Apple or Verizon so I know they will be correctly unlocked.

It sounds like the eBay seller misrepresented the item, though.


Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

[smtelegadis]

I assume the flex activation policy would apply the standard Verizon locking policy if you use a Verizon (or Visible, or Tracfone) SIM. Meaning it will be locked to Verizon for 60 days then automatically and permanently unlock. All Verizon owned services use that locking policy.

However, I have no first hand experience with the flex activation policy, as I’ve only ever purchased recent iPhones directly from Apple or Verizon so I know they will be correctly unlocked.

It sounds like the eBay seller misrepresented the item, though.


Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

Apparently this site https://sickw.com/ can check the flex locking policy on the phone. There is no information related to the status of the phones locking policy in the listing but it is VIPoutlet and they are owned by Walmart. Their return policy is pretty solid but I'm also fairly confident the stock is coming from a retail setting. As such I'm concerned about the locking stat being what is common to Retail inventory.

[sillyette]

So I just purchased an iPhone 12 from VIPoutlet/Ebay and it is listed as NEW and carrier unlocked. I found the deal on Slickdeals and I only realized later that there is a possibility the phone is a Flex Lock Policy phone which will lock to the first US sim card inserted into the phone.

IMO, such listings are fraudulent. The seller should be made to bear negative consequences for making such claims.

Does anyone know if the buyer has any recourse in such situations? Thanks!

[Yeswap]

IMO, such listings are fraudulent. The seller should be made to bear negative consequences for making such claims.

Does anyone know if the buyer has any recourse in such situations? Thanks!

The OP purchased the phone from eBay as unlocked. In my experience, eBay is very good with returns and refunds. If the phone turns out to be flex locked all the OP has to go to their purchase history on eBay and click Return this item and choose as the reason Item not as described and in the Notes field write that the phone was sold as unlocked but that it turned out to be locked. eBay will email a prepaid return shipping label and issue a full refund a day or two after the seller receives the returned item. I believe that the seller has to eat the return shipping cost, so that's a consequence.

Incidentally, the OP has not confirmed whether the phone was flex locked or not. They only speculated that the phone *might* be flex locked. I doubt that it is. Big sellers like VIPoutlet typically have deals with carriers and refurbishers to unlock phones for them.

[robbyrobby]

i may not be 100 % correct on this but my understanding of flex locked iPhones is that they are sold at big box stores to sold for service on multiple carriers and are locked at the time of sale based on how the sale is coded into the retailer POS system. so yes they are typically locked once activated but not triggered by the SIM card inserted but during the sale process by the retailer.

i also do not believe there are any legitimate reason these devices would be available second hand on places like eBay or Amazon as they should of been locked to a carrier before leaving the Big Box stores are intended for.

any ways that has always my understanding of flex locked but i am not have it 100% correct.

[smtelegadis]

IMO, such listings are fraudulent. The seller should be made to bear negative consequences for making such claims.

Does anyone know if the buyer has any recourse in such situations? Thanks!

In order to prove fraud I would need to show prior knowledge and intent to deceive by the seller. Since "VIPoutlet" is a related organization of Walmart I'm going to assume its a call center or low paid employee with no working knowledge of Apple's "US Flex Policy" who is responding to the inquires.

As others have mentioned it's eBay and I also used both Paypal and my AMEX CC to fund the product. I have three other recourses to challenge the seller if they don't come to an agreeable solution. The item is unopened from the Apple's external packaging and it will remain that way until I have a clear direction from the seller. I'm pretty confident I will get a refund if nothing else but this is becoming a colossal waste of time. I lay more fault to Apple than VIPoutlet as it's their policy with how they sell and distribute devices that causes all the confusion. Going off on a tangent, but much like their repair policies Apply complies but make it so difficult most just fall in line.

In the end Google Pixel phones and other 1st tier manufacturers like Samsung don't deviate significantly and I like the iOS and privacy protections Apple applies over Android as of recently. I want to move from a Pixel phone to iPhone but I'm between waiting periods and any viable promotion to get a new phone.

Thanks for your reply.

[smtelegadis]

i may not be 100 % correct on this but my understanding of flex locked iPhones is that they are sold at big box stores to sold for service on multiple carriers and are locked at the time of sale based on how the sale is coded into the retailer POS system. so yes they are typically locked once activated but not triggered by the SIM card inserted but during the sale process by the retailer.

i also do not believe there are any legitimate reason these devices would be available second hand on places like eBay or Amazon as they should of been locked to a carrier before leaving the Big Box stores are intended for.

any ways that has always my understanding of flex locked but i am not have it 100% correct.

According to the Apple forums this is not the case. The SIM and activation process "sets" the registration and carrier lock on the phone. This is not the same as a SIM lock but it's then only able to be released from a carrier lock through that specific carrier that the SIM establishes. Even Apple will not remove the lock without a lot of work and direct interaction with a Apple retail location.

As I stated I'd rather pay more and get a fully unlocked phone from Apple then go through all those hoops.

[energyx]

The OP purchased the phone from eBay as unlocked. In my experience, eBay is very good with returns and refunds. If the phone turns out to be flex locked all the OP has to go to their purchase history on eBay and click Return this item and choose as the reason Item not as described and in the Notes field write that the phone was sold as unlocked but that it turned out to be locked. eBay will email a prepaid return shipping label and issue a full refund a day or two after the seller receives the returned item. I believe that the seller has to eat the return shipping cost, so that's a consequence.

Incidentally, the OP has not confirmed whether the phone was flex locked or not. They only speculated that the phone *might* be flex locked. I doubt that it is. Big sellers like VIPoutlet typically have deals with carriers and refurbishers to unlock phones for them.

So I just purchased an iPhone 12 from VIPoutlet/Ebay and it is listed as NEW and carrier unlocked. I found the deal on Slickdeals and I only realized later that there is a possibility the phone is a Flex Lock Policy phone which will lock to the first US sim card inserted into the phone.

How do I determine if my phone is US Flex Policy restricted and will it lock to Visible Wireless or be Unlocked because of the carrier type? I don't plan on using it with an alternate carrier but I would like the option if travel overseas.

Did you ever activate to see what the locked policy looked like on SICKW? If so, did it lock to Verizon and then unlock after 60 days?