Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: How are Verizon 5g plans compared to the other two?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    248
    Feedback Score
    0

    How are Verizon 5g plans compared to the other two?

    I see a lot of discussion about how Verizon is making a mistake relying so much on mm wave. Is that true or is verizon going to be fine in the long run when it comes to competing in 5g?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,537
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by daisydoo View Post
    I see a lot of discussion about how Verizon is making a mistake relying so much on mm wave. Is that true or is verizon going to be fine in the long run when it comes to competing in 5g?
    VZW Mmwave plan is actually better, target the most congested places first. TMO lowband 5G, is just about getting the icon first, as it's really no different than LTE

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    858
    Device(s)
    iPhone, iPad, Netgear Nighthawk mobile hotspot
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon Wireless, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    mmWave is the smarter long-term move, but unfortunately Verizon didn’t adequately plan for the early 2020s’ capacity needs. They will need to either win big in the CBRS auction and then rapidly deploy Band 48, or simply deal with crummy data speeds in many parts of the country.

    Once the technology matures, mmWave will have coverage similar to what Band 4 had a decade ago. Remember how Band 4 used to suck indoors, but its outdoor coverage was great and the indoor issues weren’t that bad because Band 13 reached indoors just fine? That’ll be mmWave and sub-6 GHz, respectively.

    Massive MIMO, beamforming, repeaters, advances signal processing software, and other extremely complex technology will make it work wonderfully. Just not for awhile.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    2,248
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by daisydoo View Post
    I see a lot of discussion about how Verizon is making a mistake relying so much on mm wave. Is that true or is verizon going to be fine in the long run when it comes to competing in 5g?
    Not true. 5G is in it's early days. Whoever is first in 2020 isn't going to matter in 5 years. Besides Verizon is on the verge of launching 5G over lowband/mid band using DSS anyway. In places where T-Mobile has launched 5G over 2.5 GHz they will have an advantage until Verizon can launch c-band. So far that's 5 places. And Verizon will be able to launch 5G over C-band by the end of next year in 46 of the top 50 markets. Whatever lead T-Mobiles has will be short lived and 95% of people don't even have 5G phone anyway

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,537
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    mmWave is the smarter long-term move, but unfortunately Verizon didn’t adequately plan for the early 2020s’ capacity needs. They will need to either win big in the CBRS auction and then rapidly deploy Band 48, or simply deal with crummy data speeds in many parts of the country.

    Once the technology matures, mmWave will have coverage similar to what Band 4 had a decade ago. Remember how Band 4 used to suck indoors, but its outdoor coverage was great and the indoor issues weren’t that bad because Band 13 reached indoors just fine? That’ll be mmWave and sub-6 GHz, respectively.

    Massive MIMO, beamforming, repeaters, advances signal processing software, and other extremely complex technology will make it work wonderfully. Just not for awhile.
    VZW plans to go big on CBRS and Cband

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    2,248
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >
    >They will need to either win big in the CBRS auction and then rapidly deploy Band 48, or simply deal with crummy data speeds in many parts of the country.
    Verizon has already been deploying band 48 antennas for well over a year. As soon as they get CBRS license they can launch it immediately. Verizon is already using unlicensed CBRS in places as we speak.

    The 70MHz up for grabs in the CBRS PAL auction isn't enough.
    The most anyone can get is 40 MHz. Which by the way is how much spectrum Sprint was using for their 2.5 GHz 5G which they were bragging about 300-400 Mbps speeds. Verizon said they would initially use CBRS for LTE capacity anyway

    VZW is looking toward the C-band (n77/78/79) auction for relief. It will take time, until 2023, to fully clear those bands out.
    100 MHz will be clear in 46 of the top 50 markets by Dec 2021. So populationwise Verizon will be able to have CBAND 5G available to most of the country by early 2022.


    I see you are an optimist. It's not the tech so much as having the capex to build out all those tens of thousands of small cells for any sizeable mmWave coverage. It just takes money and a lot of it.
    Not as expensive as you think and mmwave can cover more than you think. Verizon partner


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    2,248
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    Edit: OK, had a look around, and VZW does have a few other VZW-branded phones with mmWave (n260/261) support, eg LG V50 ThinQ 5G, S10 5G, Note 10 5G, etc. They're all expensive. It'll be interesting to see how VZW does cheap mmWave phones.
    You stated it yourself snapdragon 765/768 devices

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    136
    Device(s)
    Pixel 2 XL
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon
    Feedback Score
    0
    Just a few thoughts.
    • DSS is still a much better option than refarming spectrum.
      Trying to allocate a fixed amount of bandwidth for 5G is just messy. A simple example of allocating half of available spectrum for 5G, LTE throughput would drop by 50%.
    • DSS will get better. It's foolish to look solely at the initial deployment and assume the same performance for the lifetime of DSS. Release 16 already provides better performance and resolves some current issues.
    • There is nothing preventing C-band auction winners from working with ($$) incumbents to clear spectrum before the FCC mandated deadlines.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    4,907
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by daisydoo View Post
    I see a lot of discussion about how Verizon is making a mistake relying so much on mm wave. Is that true or is verizon going to be fine in the long run when it comes to competing in 5g?
    mm-wave is about all Verizon has to put 5G on at the moment. They can't use what they don't have. It's not a mistake to use what you have.

    They can't statically split their other lower band spectrum between LTE and 5G without degrading the performance to their core LTE users.

    Verizon can be expected to purchase more lower band spectrum in the upcoming auctions and deploy DSS to dynamically allocate lower band spectrum between LTE and 5G on demand. DSS is a compromise, not a magic bullet. Some of the total throughput of the spectrum is lost in the switching process, but where appropriate, it is better than statically allocating between LTE and 5G.

    T-Mobile has decided to put most of their 600 MHz spectrum on 5G (without DSS yet) so that they can claim, "The First With Nationwide 5G." That's true, but borders on pointless as a practical matter. There is not much bandwidth in the 600 MHz band so it is basically the same performance as LTE for the handful of people who have 5G phones so far. This was mostly a marketing move for the hype.

    T-Mo also got a big chunk of nationwide 2.6 GHz from their purchase of Sprint that they have started deploying as 5G. That has some good speed, but hardly anyone to use it yet. They plan to deploy it over the next three years with major metro areas first. That's where the paying customers are.

    T-Mo also has some mm-wave.

    It appears that T-Mo will have an advantage in 5G for a year or so, but I wouldn't count Verizon out.

    I don't have a clear picture of what AT&T is doing or plans to do.

    Verizon will do fine, but T-Mo will be giving them a run for the money. With AT&T in the mix, the competition will be a good thing for increased wireless availability and customer cost.

    I don't expect to want or need a 5G phone for several years. I'm not paying $1000 for a phone to be an early adopter.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    2,248
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    mm-wave is about all Verizon has to put 5G on at the moment. They can't use what they don't have. It's not a mistake to use what you have.

    They can't statically split their other lower band spectrum between LTE and 5G without degrading the performance to their core LTE users.
    Well Verizon could just dedicate band 5 for 5G. It's not fully utilized for 4G since it's still being used for 3G in many places. So in areas where it's not being used for 4G at all wouldn't see any reduction in service and in places where only 5X5 is being used for LTE there would be some reduction but not much and that would decrease as more an more people buy 5G phones which will basically be a standard thing on most phones in 2021 and beyond.

    Verizon can be expected to purchase more lower band spectrum in the upcoming auctions
    There are no more low band auctions. What sub 1000 GHz spectrum is being auctioned?

    T-Mobile has decided to put most of their 600 MHz spectrum on 5G (without DSS yet) so that they can claim, "The First With Nationwide 5G." That's true, but borders on pointless as a practical matter. There is not much bandwidth in the 600 MHz band so it is basically the same performance as LTE for the handful of people who have 5G phones so far. This was mostly a marketing move for the hype.
    Between their holdings and the lease agreements in many places they will have 30X30 or even 35X35 MHz. They could easily dedicate 10X10 for 4G and 20X20 for 5G or 15X15 for 4G and 20X20 for 5G. Some areas like mine the most they could deploy is 20X20. That's likely to get divided up to 5X5 4G and 15X15 5G. So these areas will suck since it definitely would be better just to have it all on 4G for now

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    4,907
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Well Verizon could just dedicate band 5 for 5G. It's not fully utilized for 4G since it's still being used for 3G in many places. So in areas where it's not being used for 4G at all wouldn't see any reduction in service and in places where only 5X5 is being used for LTE there would be some reduction but not much and that would decrease as more an more people buy 5G phones which will basically be a standard thing on most phones in 2021 and beyond.
    Nuances of strategy should help them through the fallow period. Sure there are high dollar 5G phones now and more will hit the market in 2021 - probably mostly in the high and mid price range. Combine that with how long people keep their phones and I expect several years before 5G becomes much of a thing for mobile handsets.


    There are no more low band auctions. What sub 1000 GHz spectrum is being auctioned?
    I said lower band auctions, meaning below mm-wave. The CBRS (3.5 GHz) auction is coming up soon. Are there others coming?


    Between their [T-Mo] holdings and the lease agreements in many places they will have 30X30 or even 35X35 MHz. They could easily dedicate 10X10 for 4G and 20X20 for 5G or 15X15 for 4G and 20X20 for 5G. Some areas like mine the most they could deploy is 20X20. That's likely to get divided up to 5X5 4G and 15X15 5G. So these areas will suck since it definitely would be better just to have it all on 4G for now
    I expect T-Mo will make the best of what they have. I think my area has 15x15 and they put 10 on 5G. I'm only getting 1.5-8 Mbps on band 71 LTE. That's not very impressive, but it is better than the nothing I was getting outside of town before they turned on band 71.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    2,248
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    Nuances of strategy should help them through the fallow period. Sure there are high dollar 5G phones now and more will hit the market in 2021 - probably mostly in the high and mid price range. Combine that with how long people keep their phones and I expect several years before 5G becomes much of a thing for mobile handsets.
    Qualcomm did recently announce the Snapdragon 690 which will have 5G. Though sub 6 GHz only

    I said lower band auctions, meaning below mm-wave. The CBRS (3.5 GHz) auction is coming up soon. Are there others coming?
    not to nit pick but you said "Verizon can be expected to purchase more lower band spectrum in the upcoming auctions"

    Yes everyone knows about CBRS and CBAND. They used to be considered high band now mid band. The only other spectrum auction I know of is next year is more 2.5 GHz being auctioned off in areas where it's sitting fallow. Which I would think that T-Mobile and perhaps companies like Charter or WISP might be interested in. I these areas T-Mobile doesn't have as much 2.5 GHz spectrum. In my area T-Mobile only has 73.5 MHz and that's broken up in 6 MHz 12 MHz and a 55.5 MHz blocks. Buying up the follow spectrum would allow them to have a 114 MHz and 72 MHz block

    There are blocks of 600 MHz and AWS-3 that didn't get sold during their auctions that will eventually be re-auctioned again but who know how long that will take. The AWS-3 auction ended over 5 years ago and the 600 MHz auction ended 3 years ago.


    I expect T-Mo will make the best of what they have. I think my area has 15x15 and they put 10 on 5G. I'm only getting 1.5-8 Mbps on band 71 LTE. That's not very impressive, but it is better than the nothing I was getting outside of town before they turned on band 71.
    Yeah but if they had 15X15 on LTE that would have been better in fact better than what Verizon can offer on lowband

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,125
    Device(s)
    Verizon Galaxy S6
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon Wireless
    Feedback Score
    0
    I seriously doubt mmwave will see similar improvement as band 4.
    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    mmWave is the smarter long-term move, but unfortunately Verizon didn’t adequately plan for the early 2020s’ capacity needs. They will need to either win big in the CBRS auction and then rapidly deploy Band 48, or simply deal with crummy data speeds in many parts of the country.

    Once the technology matures, mmWave will have coverage similar to what Band 4 had a decade ago. Remember how Band 4 used to suck indoors, but its outdoor coverage was great and the indoor issues weren’t that bad because Band 13 reached indoors just fine? That’ll be mmWave and sub-6 GHz, respectively.

    Massive MIMO, beamforming, repeaters, advances signal processing software, and other extremely complex technology will make it work wonderfully. Just not for awhile.
    Sent from my Galaxy S10+ using HoFo mobile app

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    858
    Device(s)
    iPhone, iPad, Netgear Nighthawk mobile hotspot
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon Wireless, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
    I seriously doubt mmwave will see similar improvement as band 4.
    I didn’t say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Once the technology matures, mmWave will have coverage similar to what Band 4 had a decade ago. Remember how Band 4 used to suck indoors, but its outdoor coverage was great and the indoor issues weren’t that bad because Band 13 reached indoors just fine? That’ll be mmWave and sub-6 GHz, respectively.
    mmWave circa 2025 (2030?) will probably be like Band 4 circa 2010, based on what I’ve read about mmWave being pushed to penetrate into buildings when the cell is close enough and is as optimized as possible. It will never be a coverage layer, but it will absolutely have near-ubiquitous coverage in cities and denser suburban areas (with the obvious exceptions of deep inside buildings, underground without a DAS, and the inevitable dead spots all cell grids suffer).

Similar Threads

  1. does verizon have anything comparable to the iphone?
    By jonathag in forum Windows Mobile (Before 7)
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 07-31-2009, 06:50 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-21-2009, 06:54 PM
  3. what verizon phone is comparable to the iphone?
    By jonathag in forum Feature Phones
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-22-2009, 08:57 PM
  4. How does Sprint's 6700 compare to the 8125?
    By exander in forum Other AT&T PDAs/Smartphones
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-30-2006, 02:29 PM
  5. Any other plans comparable to the Right Fit plan?
    By migo in forum Rogers/Fido/Chat-r
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-15-2005, 09:35 AM

Bookmarks