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Thread: Is the New T-Mobile now in the best Position to overtake At&t and Verizon in Coverage

  1. #391
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    The issue with 3G... only available on PCS and AWS. Places like northern MI, which is primarily B12/B71 .. you would end up with 'No Service'. I will admit that even here in some places in SoCal, 2G/3G signal will hold on even where B12/B71 has packed it in.
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    The issue with 3G... only available on PCS and AWS. Places like northern MI, which is primarily B12/B71 .. you would end up with 'No Service'. I will admit that even here in some places in SoCal, 2G/3G signal will hold on even where B12/B71 has packed it in.
    I don't think anyone is suggesting they'd like to only use 3G; certainly I wasn't. I was just saying 3G is my secret weapon when dealing with congestion- no phone I've seen automatically switches from LTE to 3G as long as there's an LTE signal available.

    I wish my phone had a mode that prioritized 3G first, and only switched to 4G when 3G wasn't available- then I could park my phone on that mode when I was facing a likely congestion situation, like a concert or a convention (or my kid's high school parking lot at dismissal time!)

    (Or, alternatively, I wish Android would allow third-party apps to set the preferred network without having to root the phone so I could use "profile" apps to switch me in and out of 3G based on time or location!)



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  3. #393
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    It's been rare that I've hit the point where I have to use 3G for voice/data. There are a couple of places on the road that I can think of where 3G should perform better than LTE (may try it next month).
    Depending on which Android phone you have... you possibly can change priority/selection.
    LG series gives a ton of options from radio access type to band to carrier agg. Samsung (S10e) AT&T has similar - but you have to follow a little hack to do it. I.e. you have to boot the phone w/o the SIM installed. I had a little less luck with Motorola.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    I had a little less luck with Motorola.
    My Motorola phones can use the "4G Switcher" or "Network Mode" apps that bring up the Phone Info screen. It lets you Set Preferred Network Type, with a wide variety of choices, no root needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mframe View Post
    My Motorola phones can use the "4G Switcher" or "Network Mode" apps that bring up the Phone Info screen. It lets you Set Preferred Network Type, with a wide variety of choices, no root needed.
    Despite the wide variety of choices (most of which don't apply because they are for different carriers- e.g. "CDMA Only" when using T-Mo or AT&T) they suffer from the same issues as the choices presented in the Settings/Network/Mobile Network/Advanced/Preferred Network Type menu; they seem to really be filters rather than true preferences.

    LTE Preferred is really LTE>3G>2G,

    WCDMA (3G) Preferred is really 3G>2G, and

    2G (GSM) Preferred is really 2G only.

    The order of network "preference" never seems to change- it's always fastest to slowest, so you're just selecting where in the pecking order the phone starts looking, and filtering out anything faster than your "preference"

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  6. #396
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    Last Moto that I messed with some of the settings was a Moto X Pure. I had a hard time finding many settings.
    LG - pretty much everything - no root required.
    Samsung - most settings - but on my AT&T version I have to set bands/RAT before I put the SIM in, as it has a carrier lock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    Last Moto that I messed with some of the settings was a Moto X Pure. I had a hard time finding many settings.
    LG - pretty much everything - no root required.
    Samsung - most settings - but on my AT&T version I have to set bands/RAT before I put the SIM in, as it has a carrier lock.
    I'm surprised the Samsung honors those settings after you put the SIM back in. I'd have expected the SIM change would reset any mobile network settings back to the AT&T defaults.



    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

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    There's actually a post somewhere (Reddit?) which explains it. AT&T isn't forcing a setting... its only blocking you from accessing the settings - through the SIM, not software image.
    Eject the SIM, restart the phone - enter *#2263# and you can clear/select bands/technology - and 'Apply'
    Put the SIM in, and you're done - I have tested this out - attempting to map B30/B29 in my area.
    If you need to clear it - start over.
    Name:  Screenshot_20200527-104510_Service mode RIL.jpg
Views: 53
Size:  17.4 KB
    Name:  Screenshot_20200527-104747_Service mode RIL.jpg
Views: 47
Size:  49.1 KB

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    With some of the Super Fans on timeout from posting hyperbole and nonsense we have drifted far from the topic. I guess without nonsense to refute there is not much to discuss.

    On the original topic: Is-the-New-T-Mobile-now-in-the-best-Position-to-overtake-At&t-and-Verizon-in-Coverage, the question is nonsense.

    T-Mobile is the ONLY carrier with a chance to overtake AT&T and Verizon in coverage. Even the biggest regional carrier, USCC, with 1.2% of the market subscribers has no chance and it is not their business plan to even try.

    That said, I believe that T-mo has a good chance to overtake the current Big-2 in subscriber count, but probably not in square mile coverage any time in the next few years. They don't need to get to #2 in square miles to get to #2 in subscribers. They just need to be good enough and continue to creatively differentiate themselves from the monolithic, inflexible current Big-2. It looks like they are heading that way which is an excellent development for market competition, not just for T-Mo.

    In the niche wireless Internet market, SpaceX-Starlink will have more square miles and population coverage than anything else. They will cover the entire United States, and most of the rest of the world* where they are permitted to operate. But Starlink is not a mobile handset service. It takes a pizza box sized antenna.

    *Between 50 degrees of North and South latitude.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    W
    T-Mobile is the ONLY carrier with a chance to overtake AT&T and Verizon in coverage. Even the biggest regional carrier, USCC, with 1.2% of the market subscribers has no chance and it is not their business plan to even try.

    That said, I believe that T-mo has a good chance to overtake the current Big-2 in subscriber count, but probably not in square mile coverage any time in the next few years. They don't need to get to #2 in square miles to get to #2 in subscribers. They just need to be good enough and continue to creatively differentiate themselves from the monolithic, inflexible current Big-2. It looks like they are heading that way which is an excellent development for market competition, not just for T-Mo.
    This is correct, as there are literally no other providers in the US that are national.
    I do think that T-Mobile can overtake Verizon or AT&T in subscriber numbers - or at least overall devices attached, as the majority of people/devices are urban / suburban. With IoT, that urban vs. rural number is even more noticable, which validates the not needing to be #2 in sq miles to get #2 in subs. I don't expect them to match AT&T/VZW in rural coverage, but I do hope/expect them improve rural coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    This is correct, as there are literally no other providers in the US that are national.
    I do think that T-Mobile can overtake Verizon or AT&T in subscriber numbers - or at least overall devices attached, as the majority of people/devices are urban / suburban. With IoT, that urban vs. rural number is even more noticable, which validates the not needing to be #2 in sq miles to get #2 in subs. I don't expect them to match AT&T/VZW in rural coverage, but I do hope/expect them improve rural coverage.
    I have been following T-Mo since they were able to buy a moderate chunk of nationwide 600 MHz at auction. They have been lighting that up at a good pace. When they turned it on in my area on the rural fringe of suburbia around December 2019 I went from no T-Mo signal inside home to ok, but not fast. My area had a lot of TV stations to move before they could turn it on. A lot of TV stations does not mean that I am in an urban area, it's pretty rural generally. This area is on the fringes of every station in DC and Richmond, along with some to the East and West that serve the Delmarva peninsula and Shenandoah.

    Just deploying 600 MHz will make a big difference in T-Mo rural coverage without even going on new towers. The TV station moves are scheduled to be done by about the end of July.

    Then there is the whole bunch of Sprint's band 41. I doubt that will make much difference in rural coverage and capacity. I don't see them putting it on a bunch of new towers spaced for that frequency (2.5 GHz) along all of the highways and byways any time soon. It can make a big difference in urban and even smaller town areas for capacity. If they slap it on their existing rural sites there will be some pockets of improved rural. My experience with Sprint band 25 at 1.9 GHz indicates that its range and material penetration isn't real good, but if you are close to a cell it will add a lot of capacity.

    The three spectrum range "Layer Cake" will do well in metro areas.

    Subscriber count will need to be considered carefully for #1 and #2 bragging rights. I expect all three carriers will get a share of IoT lines. Many of those only pay a few dollars a month for a small amount of data and shouldn't count as much as a full price postpaid subscriber.

    With improved coverage T-Mo will stand a chance of getting a bigger share of business and government subscribers too.

    It will be interesting to see how the T-Mo story plays out. I expect great things.

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    I don't disagree that 600MHz (and even B12 700MHz) makes a huge difference compared to having primarily PCS/AWS for rural areas.
    Many rural areas weren't even covered while running only PCS/AWS (hint - most of MI north of Bay City).
    Adding in B12/B71 has given them reason to build. Where they, in the past built on PCS and wanted to go LTE only - it was a more political battle as well.
    Pushing greenfield in rural has been a 'good stab' so far, but I'll admit they still have ways to go in many areas.
    Some of the rural areas in the past, were built back in the analog days covering a lot of area - some build in national parks (hard to do these days). Carriers like AT&T/Verizon have 850MHz - which were REQUIRED to build out to a specific presence had its advantage then.
    Having 850, 700 and 600MHz rurally is good.
    This still doesn't cut it if there isn't enough rural build to cover. Eg. Fullmore, CA has B4 20x20 (+5x5) , B2 15x15, B12 5x5 and B71 15x15 deployed along with 5G. Its a town of ~15k with 1 cell site. Peak speeds are ~1-2Mbps.
    On the other end... places like Lake Placid NY - if you have anything but VZW, you're mostly out of luck. Island of Kauai is similar. I roamed on AT&T a lot while I was there - and they had B12 then. They just have very few sites.
    Urban / suburban areas won't be as difficult - as they have both T-Mobile and Sprint's infra to use, and the population base is typically urban/suburban. This is where T-Mobile 'can' make its money to fund build out to catch up to AT&T/VZW in rural.

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    Is the New T-Mobile now in the best Position to overtake At&t and Verizon in Coverage

    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    I have been following T-Mo since they were able to buy a moderate chunk of nationwide 600 MHz at auction. They have been lighting that up at a good pace. When they turned it on in my area on the rural fringe of suburbia around December 2019 I went from no T-Mo signal inside home to ok, but not fast. My area had a lot of TV stations to move before they could turn it on. A lot of TV stations does not mean that I am in an urban area, it's pretty rural generally. This area is on the fringes of every station in DC and Richmond, along with some to the East and West that serve the Delmarva peninsula and Shenandoah.

    Just deploying 600 MHz will make a big difference in T-Mo rural coverage without even going on new towers. The TV station moves are scheduled to be done by about the end of July.

    Then there is the whole bunch of Sprint's band 41. I doubt that will make much difference in rural coverage and capacity. I don't see them putting it on a bunch of new towers spaced for that frequency (2.5 GHz) along all of the highways and byways any time soon. It can make a big difference in urban and even smaller town areas for capacity. If they slap it on their existing rural sites there will be some pockets of improved rural. My experience with Sprint band 25 at 1.9 GHz indicates that its range and material penetration isn't real good, but if you are close to a cell it will add a lot of capacity.

    The three spectrum range "Layer Cake" will do well in metro areas.

    Subscriber count will need to be considered carefully for #1 and #2 bragging rights. I expect all three carriers will get a share of IoT lines. Many of those only pay a few dollars a month for a small amount of data and shouldn't count as much as a full price postpaid subscriber.

    With improved coverage T-Mo will stand a chance of getting a bigger share of business and government subscribers too.

    It will be interesting to see how the T-Mo story plays out. I expect great things.
    Good post. T-Mobile has come a long way in the last several years but there are still sites in my area being upgraded with 600 MHz. In fact they just built a new macro site about 5 miles west of me. It only has 700/AWS on it. I was able to talk to the tower engineer they’ve made a whole new rack for future 600/2.5 GHz deployments. How much faster do you think T-Mobile’s network will become once n41 gets deployed on a wide scale? Verizon is holding up extremely well with small cells and a tight macro grid ( I’m in the nyc suburbs). I’m starting to see CBRS deployments even on macro sites. Can VZ maintain a solid network with C band still another 18 months away at least? T-Mobile really has the opportunity to leap ahead with all the spectrum they now have.

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    Is the New T-Mobile now in the best Position to overtake At&t and Verizon in Coverage

    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    ..Just deploying 600 MHz will make a big difference in T-Mo rural coverage without even going on new towers..
    I don’t disagree, but I also don’t agree, if that makes sense.

    Yes, deploying 600MHz on sites will help improve coverage, but the reliability is what T-Mobile’s service is lacking.

    Common notion is the more sites, the more robust service. This is why Verizon and AT&T go out of their way to build sites in BFE with 700/850MHz, instead of slapping additional carriers onto macros. It’s not about having a signal, but rather having a consistently operable one (i.e. Not Faux-G).
    - Bentley


    AT&T 5G+, Oklahoma City

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    Quote Originally Posted by BentleyBeard View Post
    I don’t disagree, but I also don’t agree, if that makes sense.

    Yes, deploying 600MHz on sites will help improve coverage, but the reliability is what T-Mobile’s service is lacking.

    Common notion is the more sites, the more robust service. This is why Verizon and AT&T go out of their way to build sites in BFE with 700/850MHz, instead of slapping additional carriers onto macros. It’s not about having a signal, but rather having a consistently operable one (i.e. Not Faux-G).
    Yes, in parts of BFE, AT&T/Verizon do have more sites built.
    Not all rural locations are equal. Some are more equal than others.
    Eg. Lucerne Valley, CA
    - AT&T has a B2 (20x20) + B12 (10x10) site - church
    - T-Mobile has a B4 (20x20) + B12 (5x5) + B71 (15x15) site - church
    - Verizon - B4/B13/B66

    Where the difference comes - is how far to the next site.
    T-Mobile is west - "In" Apple Valley itself - gap actually drops service
    AT&T is west - but ~5 miles closer
    Verizon is west - but literally has one 1/2 the distance of T-Mobile's away.

    Similarly - going towards BigBear -
    T-Mobile... no sites from Lucerne Valley to Baldwin Lake. Basically a gap from Cushenbury to Baldwin Lake
    AT&T - very similar to T-Mobile
    Verizon - 1 site at Cushenbury, one site in the San Bernardino Natl' Forest going up the grade, and one at Lake Baldwin.

    '
    Urbran coverage here is a bit different. T-Mobile has more sites - and less spectrum deployed.
    T-Mobile B4 - 20x20 (all), B2 10x10 (all), B12 (5x5) most, B71 (15x15) few
    AT&T - B4 - 10x10, B2 20x20, B12 10x10, B14 10x10, B29 5MHz, B30 10x10
    Verizon - B2, B4, B13, B5 - '
    I haven't used VZW for a long time - so I can't vouch for performance. What I can still note - VZW in most rural places that I've been to, has more sites built, followed by AT&T, then T-Mobile and then Sprint.

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