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Thread: Is the New T-Mobile now in the best Position to overtake At&t and Verizon in Coverage

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Buttler View Post
    Typical att lover trying to disparage T-Mobiles success. Panicking now that T-Mobile is the number two carrier.
    Did you even read the article? (I’ll answer; no, you didn’t)

    It says:


    “The surge in subscribers is due to T-Mobile’s acquisition of Sprint, as this is the first time that T-Mobile is counting Sprint subscribers following their blockbuster merger.


    But looking a bit more closely at the numbers, T-Mobile may not be making an apples-to-apples comparison. T-Mobile uses the term “total customers” to describe its scale, and it’s comparing those to AT&T’s postpaid and prepaid “subscribers and connections,” as reported in the carrier’s Q2 2020 earnings. AT&T listed 92.9 million customers across its postpaid and prepaid categories, which is indeed lower than the 98.3 million total customers T-Mobile reported.”
    - Bentley


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  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    And why should customers care if their carrier is #1, 2 or 3?
    Agreed! All I care is if my phone works where and when it matters.
    Just another day in paradise.....

  3. #528
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    For many.. It's actual service. For those in dense urban markets, cost and features play a lot more into the mix.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using HoFo mobile app
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by BentleyBeard View Post
    Did you even read the article? (I’ll answer; no, you didn’t)

    It says:


    “The surge in subscribers is due to T-Mobile’s acquisition of Sprint, as this is the first time that T-Mobile is counting Sprint subscribers following their blockbuster merger.


    But looking a bit more closely at the numbers, T-Mobile may not be making an apples-to-apples comparison. T-Mobile uses the term “total customers” to describe its scale, and it’s comparing those to AT&T’s postpaid and prepaid “subscribers and connections,” as reported in the carrier’s Q2 2020 earnings. AT&T listed 92.9 million customers across its postpaid and prepaid categories, which is indeed lower than the 98.3 million total customers T-Mobile reported.”
    This is all arbitrary nonsense anyway...

    Sure T-Mo leapfrogged because of the merger, but so did AT&T after the Cingular/(Old)AT&T Wireless merger, Verizon (Bell Atlantic) after their acquisition of NYNEX etc.

    And as far as counting who has more lines or customers, that's a moving target the cell companies have struggled with for years- does a <$5 month pay as you go prepaid customer count? Is a four line family plan one "account" or four "lines"? Are low revenue data devices (IoT devices, watches, etc.) considered lines of service?

    My family current has 10 active lines on a grandfathered T-Mo plan- 6 phones (two of which are "free" from prior promotions), and 4 on-demand ($0/month for 0 data) "tablet" lines I only use to snag extra gift cards and discounts on T-Mo Tuesdays. For this smorgasbord of lines I pay $120 (before taxes and fees), dragging down T-Mo's ARPU with my $12/line account.

    Realistically, the cellcos should just use revenue as the final arbiter of "largest" just like the retail industry does. No one claims Walmart is bigger than Target because they sell more total items, but because they take in more total dollars. So equally, if AT&T generates more *revenue* selling wireless than T-Mo does, even if T-Mo has more "lines" by one count or another, AT&T is the "bigger" carrier.





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    Todd Allcock, Microsoft MVP: Mobile Devices 2007-2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    ...Realistically, the cellcos should just use revenue as the final arbiter of "largest" just like the retail industry does. No one claims Walmart is bigger than Target because they sell more total items, but because they take in more total dollars. So equally, if AT&T generates more *revenue* selling wireless than T-Mo does, even if T-Mo has more "lines" by one count or another, AT&T is the "bigger" carrier.
    I basically agree, except I would use the metric of income (profit) rather than revenue (sales). Sprint had an ok looking revenue, but did not make a profit for over ten consecutive years. There wasn't anything to brag or admire about Sprint by the end.

    All the same, I'm not getting my knickers in a knot about T-Mo using their cherry-picked, nebulous metric of subscriber numbers for bragging rights for marketing. It's business and not a total lie.

    I know who has the best network for me because I've tried them all, and it a'int T-Mo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    I agree. Firstnet has lit the fire for AT&T in more rural markets. TMobile 'can' do this... It is really up to the CEO and board of directors. Long term, it would be wise. Short term, they have to merge the 2 networks successfully, and keep customers/grow. If they keep growing every quarter they'll be mostly fine. As another article states... AT&T has ~70 million IoT devices. Personal user base can only grow so much...so if they want to grow more on IoT, they'll have to grow rural coverage as well.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using HoFo mobile app
    Yeah that’s what it comes down to. T-Mobile will have some good resources but it’s up to them to use it to the fullest.

    I know I’ll be disappointed if they skimp on rural going forward after the sprint integration


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Port View Post
    Federal/State parks, beaches are a horse of different color. There are federal and state laws and regulations that restrict what and where towers can be placed. Not quite as simple as the park administrators not wanting them.

    Would you really want to see a cell tower on top of George Washington's head at Mount Rushmore ??
    My problem with TMO park coverage is this

    #1 Most visited State Park in Texas; TMO no coverage or roaming

    #1 Most visited National Park in the nation; roaming on some local carrier with a data cap that runs out in less than a few hours of surfing the web or sending pictures

    But AT&T and VZW have excellent coverage in these places, and most of their sites aren’t on park property either

    Yes I realize that Rural is not the main focus of TMO, but if they are going to claim to be #2, these areas need to be covered properly, ppl do visit these popular areas and expect coverage

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    So why should "att lovers" "panic" just because T-Mo may have jumped into the #2 spot?
    Because it means that AT&T is in trouble. Serious trouble. I predicted that they would overtake AT&T because of AT&T's overextending themselves with the DirecTV and Time Warner mergers. But I never predicted it would have happened this quickly.

    But I knew that Randall couldn't wait to get out of this mess last year. I don't believe Stankey is up to the job to take on the new T-Mobile. He's a complete lightweight.

    You were a subscriber of #3 rated T-Mo for years, and you weren't "panicking"...
    Because I could see the future and the future looked bright.

    Quote Originally Posted by BentleyBeard View Post
    T-Mobile uses the term “total customers” to describe its scale, and it’s comparing those to AT&T’s postpaid and prepaid “subscribers and connections,” as reported in the carrier’s Q2 2020 earnings. AT&T listed 92.9 million customers across its postpaid and prepaid categories, which is indeed lower than the 98.3 million total customers T-Mobile reported.”
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    I'm not getting my knickers in a knot about T-Mo using their cherry-picked, nebulous metric of subscriber numbers for bragging rights for marketing.

    There are still other stats to surpass AT&T in. T-Mobile is just getting started!

    This is exactly what the merger opponents were so afraid of when they fought against it. They knew if T-Mobile and Sprint combined resources, the duopoly would be in serious trouble. And they certainly are.

  9. #534
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    Like a.lot of things from TMobile... I'll believe it when I see it (coverage). New Tmobile still doesn't offer 24x7 support. As someone that uses a phone for work...often off hours, that doesn't cut it.
    I personally dont think that AT&T is in as much of a hot seat as Verizon.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using HoFo mobile app

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post

    [Originally Posted by elecconnec:

    "You were a subscriber of #3 rated T-Mo for years, and you weren't "panicking"..." ]



    Because I could see the future and the future looked bright.
    Well, I was talking to T-Buttler, but I can't pass up this opportunity to ask you a few questions...

    When exactly did you see this "bright future?" Because I distinctly remember nearly a decade ago, in the Phil Humm as CEO days (when T-Mo was the #4 carrier!), you used to p*ss all over T-Mo in ways that make the "anti-T-Mobile" posts you accuse me of posting today look positively amateurish in comparison.

    Admittedly you changed your tune real darn fast after Legere came on board, but prior to that, T-Buttler would've tried you as a heretic if he'd been around back then! I never figured out why you stuck with T-Mo back then, other than you probably liked cheap rate plans (even if the service itself was substandard,) and the freedom to use any compatible device you chose without needing the carrier's blessing, (as I also did.)


    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    This is exactly what the merger opponents were so afraid of when they fought against it. They knew if T-Mobile and Sprint combined resources, the duopoly would be in serious trouble. And they certainly are.

    You spent the entire year before the merger claiming Sprint and its pathetic network were beyond saving and had too much debt to be rescued, so what are these "resources" they brought to the merger, besides a bunch of spectrum (good) and cheapskate customers on grandfathered giveaway Sprint rate plans T-Mo is stuck guaranteeing for three years (not so good)? This wasn't a merger, it was a grab bag sale- T-Mo bought the grab bag that was Sprint to get the spectrum, and got stuck with all the other stuff at the bottom of the bag- an obsolete CDMA network and equipment, and 30 million less than desirable customers who will start whining (and perhaps churning) the next time they leave town and notice they lost the ability to roam on Verizon.

    Far from being in trouble, the old duopoly (who, you'll recall, never once came out on record as against the merger!) are probably popping champagne corks, and offering a glass to T-Mobile, their newest member! The biggest threat to all of their profits, Sprint's continual barrage of low-ball desperation rate plans, has been eliminated, ushering in what will be a new golden era of "take it or leave it" rate plans and policies.




    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post

    Because I distinctly remember nearly a decade ago, in the Phil Humm as CEO days (when T-Mo was the #4 carrier!), you used to p*ss all over T-Mo in ways that make the "anti-T-Mobile" posts you accuse me of posting today look positively amateurish in comparison.
    Of course you don't quote any of these "anti-T-Mobile" posts even though I have over 15,000 posts on this board. You just state this unsubstantiated allegation.

    I will admit that I thought Philipp Humm was a complete idiot and that he completely mismanaged T-Mobile USA. Apparently the board of Deutsche Telekom agreed with me as they got him out of the role and turned the company over to someone who built the company into the greatness that it has become.

    T-Butler certainly does not need you to speak for him. I welcome his discussion on any of my past views if he wishes to air his thoughts. But I certainly doubt that he would take any issue with my criticism of Humm since I wanted what was best for T-Mobile.

    Your post did prompt me to find out what ever became of Mr. Philipp. Imagine my shock when I found this in his Wikipedia entry:

    "Humm is an Artist and Film director since 2015.

    Philipp Humm’s transition from CEO to artist and ‘ironic-narrator’ of modern life


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Humm

    LOL. The guy couldn't make it in any level of the business world so he became a "film director"!


    You spent the entire year before the merger claiming Sprint and its pathetic network were beyond saving and had too much debt to be rescued
    Actually that was not an accurate description of my position, as T-Mobile did indeed rescue it. My position was clear that Sprint was not going to turn things around on its own. My position also was that there was not going to be another company to come in and bail them out. Those that said, Google, Amazon, Comcast, and whoever else could take over Sprint and keep a fourth carrier alive, were shown that no other company had any serious intention of doing so.

    , so what are these "resources" they brought to the merger, besides a bunch of spectrum (good)
    Oh yes, Sprint had a treasure trove of BRS spectrum that was very unique to the industry. That spectrum will play an essential role in their 5G layer cake and provide great speeds and service to their customers.

    and cheapskate customers on grandfathered giveaway Sprint rate plans T-Mo is stuck guaranteeing for three years (not so good)? This wasn't a merger, it was a grab bag sale- T-Mo bought the grab bag that was Sprint to get the spectrum, and got stuck with all the other stuff at the bottom of the bag- an obsolete CDMA network and equipment, and 30 million less than desirable customers
    Not surprising to see that the former AT&T business associate generalizes and trashes Sprint customers calling them "less than desirable" and "cheapskate customers". No facts. Just more name calling. You admittedly spent a lot of time peddling AT&T wares, so it's obvious where your loyalty lies. As the "mighty" AT&T falls from grace, I'm sure it's a hard pill to swallow.

    who will start whining (and perhaps churning) the next time they leave town and notice they lost the ability to roam on Verizon.
    Verizon is shutting down CDMA anyway. If those customers need coverage in those areas, they should switch to Verizon instead of expecting that T-Mobile will continue to pay for their coverage. I encourage them to switch just like I often encourage you to switch when you start whining about your terrible coverage. But you just can't stop yourself from paying T-Mobile every month...

    Far from being in trouble, the old duopoly (who, you'll recall, never once came out on record as against the merger!)
    How could they? How much of a PR disaster would that have been if they said they didn't want the merger because they were afraid to have a strong competitor? Oh boy! So since they couldn't be open, they sent their lobbyists to encourage many state attorney generals to stop the merger. But in the end, T-Mobile prevailed.

    are probably popping champagne corks
    No corks are being popped as they see their worst nightmare of T-Mobile climbing the ranks and threatening their profit.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Because it means that AT&T is in trouble. Serious trouble....
    The assertion that AT&T is in trouble. Serious trouble is not supported by the facts. That sounds like wishful thinking by a T-Mo super fan.

    In the first quarter of 2020 AT&T had a profit of $1.2 billion. T-mo was $110 Million.

    Consensus of market analysts is to hold AT&T stock.

    Neither AT&T or T-Mo is in serious trouble.

    Don't lump me in with those that opposed T-Mo acquiring Sprint. I was in favor of it. It was obvious that Sprint was not going to continue as a credible competitor on their own. I wanted to see what T-Mo could do with Sprint's assets rather than Sprint's rotting corpse being picked over and dispersed.

    T-Mo is out there building a competitive network as I thought they would. This is good.

    I am also not an AT&T fan. They are not even as good as T-Mo in some areas where I want cell service, but still way behind Verizon.

    T-Mo is building a 5G network for the future without much interim LTE improvement. What they have now just a few months after starting doesn't mean much. In a year to three the story could be a lot different.

  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    The assertion that AT&T is in trouble. Serious trouble is not supported by the facts. That sounds like wishful thinking by a T-Mo super fan.

    In the first quarter of 2020 AT&T had a profit of $1.2 billion. T-mo was $110 Million.

    Consensus of market analysts is to hold AT&T stock.

    Neither AT&T or T-Mo is in serious trouble.

    Don't lump me in with those that opposed T-Mo acquiring Sprint. I was in favor of it. It was obvious that Sprint was not going to continue as a credible competitor on their own. I wanted to see what T-Mo could do with Sprint's assets rather than Sprint's rotting corpse being picked over and dispersed.

    T-Mo is out there building a competitive network as I thought they would. This is good.

    I am also not an AT&T fan. They are not even as good as T-Mo in some areas where I want cell service, but still way behind Verizon.

    T-Mo is building a 5G network for the future without much interim LTE improvement. What they have now just a few months after starting doesn't mean much. In a year to three the story could be a lot different.
    You are correct. AT&T is a behemoth (for good or bad). Similarly, T-Mo has been a scrappy upstart, which has changed the model of wireless... which has been generally good, and their network buildout has improved. I too thought that allowing T-Mobile to purchase vs. having Sprint be liquidated was a good thing. Now that T-Mobile is a large company, its challenges will be somewhat different. It 'can' stay as the 'economy carrier' which primarily supports urban markets/handsets... or it can compete directly against VZW/AT&T for rural/government/IoT/multimedia/etc. While those may be primarily urban focused (as that is where the vast majority of subscribers are for all carriers), it will need to become 'more like' AT&T / VZW to compete in those markets, and prices will go up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    ......I will admit that I thought Philipp Humm was a complete idiot and that he completely mismanaged T-Mobile USA. .......
    Humm was sent to do one job: Unload T-Mo (US) and get that dog off DT's books. While he failed in his mission, the breakup fees he negotiated allowed T-Mo (US) to get a leg up and start to become what it is now. Fortunately, there was someone waiting in the wings who realized just how broken the US wireless industry was and who had a plan to shake things up.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Of course you don't quote any of these "anti-T-Mobile" posts even though I have over 15,000 posts on this board. You just state this unsubstantiated allegation.
    Well, I don't intend to slog through 15k posts, but a quick search of "Jet1000" and terms like "pathetic", "desperate" and churn came up with a few...

    T-Mo was both desperate and pathetic in this one..

    https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...ile-sales-call

    Here you "love seeing Verizon put T-Mobile in their place..."

    https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...nt-as-T-Mobile

    Here, you found their rural coverage "unusable and pathetic"...

    https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...8#post14988418

    Here they advertise their "pathetic" coverage:

    https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...6#post15077896


    And I'm not begrudging you your right to complain about T-Mo, just pointing out the irony that you apparently did it a decade ago, yet you pounce on any one who does it today, and ask them why they don't switch carriers if they're unhappy? (Ironically again, posters here a decade ago asked *you* why didn't you switch if you were unhappy!)


    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Not surprising to see that the former AT&T business associate generalizes and trashes Sprint customers calling them "less than desirable" and "cheapskate customers". No facts. Just more name calling. You admittedly spent a lot of time peddling AT&T wares, so it's obvious where your loyalty lies. As the "mighty" AT&T falls from grace, I'm sure it's a hard pill to swallow.
    Um, yes, I "peddled" AT&T for a few years in the late 1990's ('97-2002, IIRC) back when they were Cingular. In fact they were still SW Bell (pre-Bell South merger) when I first signed up as a dealer. Back then T-Mo was still Voicestream, so you characterizing me as an "AT&T loyalist" is a more than a wee bit disingenuous. I've been a continual Voicestream/T-Mo subscriber since October, 2001. I suspect *very* few on this board can top that tenure.

    As to Sprint's customers, I'm speaking in aggregate, not disparaging them individually- Sprint had relatively low ARPU, hence "less than desirable" (comparatively). Plus, Sprint has run several low ball promo plans in the last few years in a desperate attempt to reduce churn and increase subscriber numbers, including unlimited talk, text, and data for free for 1-year, or as low as $25 indefinitely (Kickstart plan) hence "cheapskates".


    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Verizon is shutting down CDMA anyway. If those customers need coverage in those areas, they should switch to Verizon instead of expecting that T-Mobile will continue to pay for their coverage.
    Right, but those customers didn't ask to be merged into T-Mo. A bunch of Sprint customers, through no fault of their own, essentially just woke up one day with less coverage. They definitely *should* expect T-Mo to pay for their previous coverage, because when you acquire a company, as T-Mo did Sprint, you acquire their *obligations* as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    I encourage them to switch just like I often encourage you to switch when you start whining about your terrible coverage. But you just can't stop yourself from paying T-Mobile every month...
    Nor could you, it seemed... The lure of your circa 2011 grandfathered plan was as strong to you as mine have been to me, apparently. If you've kept that same plan you're now getting unlimited everything for $30/month. (T&T 300 w/Unlimited data would have become unlimited everything after Uncarrier ended limits.)

    So, I'll end this post with this:

    I will continue to post about what I am dissatisfied with about T-Mobile service as I have always done.
    I do not sweep their wrongdoings under the rug as some people would prefer.

    (Three guesses as who originally posted the paragraph above...)






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