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Thread: Move from north florida to south florida coverage questions

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Yes it would. It's a matter of priorities.

    Yes, it's a matter of priorities. Places like NYC are highly spectrum constrained. They need every MHz they can get into service. Miami has a similar situation. Lake Wales doesn't. Lake Wales has band-12 service. They probably won't upgrade it to band-71 this week.

    T-Mobile seems to have prioritized band-71 installations something like this:
    1. Large cities where current spectrum is highly congested. (NYC)
    2. Areas where other carriers hold all the 700 MHz licenses. (Mississippi)
    3. Towers they have to upgrade or modernize for some other reason.
    4. New installations.

    This is why you'll see more band-71 sites in Mississippi than in Georgia. The latter already has band-12 coverage. Eventually, band-71 coverage will be just about everywhere because it's going the be the backbone of 5G service. It just takes time to upgrade thousands of towers.

    P.S. I probably need to add to the priority list service needed to meet FCC build-out requirements.
    Is there a big difference between band 71 and band 5 when it comes to coverage penetration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Buttler View Post
    Is there a big difference between band 71 and band 5 when it comes to coverage penetration?
    Virtually none.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Move from north florida to south florida coverage questions

    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Virtually none.
    Interesting always thought there would be a little more range on 600.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Virtually none.
    Then can you tell me why at my favorite Sports Bar that is a metal building that been preventing any network from working correctly inside for years suddenly got easy to stream video inside just as B71 was turned on. T-Mobile had Band 12 in the area for years. All four networks work outside the building. Sprint’s 850 MHz can only text inside. Verizon will also text and rings but you have to go outside. AT&T works better than Verizon on voice calls provided you are near the front windows. Only T-Mobile can stream video without buffering that only started after 600MHz was deployed in that area. The only thing that sounds right to me is 600 MHz penetration is better than 700 MHz or 850 MHz.

    I get it that my statement is an anecdotal observation. Do you have any data with solid tests that shows that 600 MHz is virtually zero improvement over 700 MHz or even 850 MHz?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Buttler View Post
    Interesting always thought there would be a little more range on 600.
    The issue is that band 71's uplink and downlink are reversed relative to all other US bands. This puts band-71's uplink directly adjacent band-12's uplink. Since uplink is the weak link in the chain, there's only a slight difference between the range of band-12 & band-71.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    The issue is that band 71's uplink and downlink are reversed relative to all other US bands. This puts band-71's uplink directly adjacent band-12's uplink. Since uplink is the weak link in the chain, there's only a slight difference between the range of band-12 & band-71.
    FCC requirement? Seems odd all the other bands don’t do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Buttler View Post
    FCC requirement? Seems odd all the other bands don’t do this.
    FCC's response to carrier's requests. The issue is that if band-71's down and up links were in the normal arrangement (down higher than up) they would have had to leave a significant guard band between band-12 and band-71. By placing the uplinks adjacent to each other they obviate the need for one guard band, increasing the usable spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Then can you tell me why at my favorite Sports Bar that is a metal building......
    There are too many variables to account for performance in a specific indoor location. I've been looking online for a UHF atmospheric attenuation chart that would show the difference between 600 and 700 MHz is almost nil. Unfortunately everything I can find covers either the entire EM spectrum or just above 1GHz. I'm following CDC advice and don't intend to rush out to the technical library to scan a page from the Radio Engineer's Handbook to prove the point.

    I can recount my recent experiences in which newly installed band-71 sites provide almost no improvement in indoor service in some buildings but make a world of difference in others. I can't explain why. They also went from dual-panel mid-band air units to two single-panel, polarity-diversity air units. So any coverage maps based on the old installation are rendered meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    There are too many variables to account for performance in a specific indoor location. I've been looking online for a UHF atmospheric attenuation chart that would show the difference between 600 and 700 MHz is almost nil. Unfortunately everything I can find covers either the entire EM spectrum or just above 1GHz. I'm following CDC advice and don't intend to rush out to the technical library to scan a page from the Radio Engineer's Handbook to prove the point.

    I can recount my recent experiences in which newly installed band-71 sites provide almost no improvement in indoor service in some buildings but make a world of difference in others. I can't explain why. They also went from dual-panel mid-band air units to two single-panel, polarity-diversity air units. So any coverage maps based on the old installation are rendered meaningless.
    That why I asked your opinion but from my experience B71 that is still being upgraded has really improved speed, distance and penetration inside building. The only thing I can measure is the speed increases that outside of one place has improved by 60 Mbps to 90 Mbps on different Speedtest. Fastest speed test was 130 Mbps. However that was with carrier aggressions and it did bounce around on the speed increase between 60/90 Mbps. Have friends on each of the four major networks and inside that bar only T-Mobile after B71 is the only network that can stream YouTube videos any where inside that building. AT&T can only stream video if they are near the big windows. There is no stream with Verizon. Sprint is lucky to be able to text inside.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 03-30-2020 at 11:53 AM.

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    600 would have *somewhat* more range than 700; not a lot, but you might not need a lot extra to go from "no service" to enough to stream youtube. They might just be running B71 at higher power too. Another big factor, running B71 and B12 probably doubles the low-band spectrum, this could make a huge difference.

    In my area on VZW, if you got outside the band 4/2 coverage into band 13-only (10mhz at 700mhz), speeds were getting rather low, like 3-5mbps. They more recently added (probably 5mhz) of band 5 (850mhz), that was enough to make speeds shoot up to like 15-20mbps in the low-band-only areas; roughly quadruple the speed from a 50% low band capacity increase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    600 would have *somewhat* more range than 700; not a lot, but you might not need a lot extra to go from "no service" to enough to stream youtube. They might just be running B71 at higher power too. Another big factor, running B71 and B12 probably doubles the low-band spectrum, this could make a huge difference.

    In my area on VZW, if you got outside the band 4/2 coverage into band 13-only (10mhz at 700mhz), speeds were getting rather low, like 3-5mbps. They more recently added (probably 5mhz) of band 5 (850mhz), that was enough to make speeds shoot up to like 15-20mbps in the low-band-only areas; roughly quadruple the speed from a 50% low band capacity increase.
    Not to be off topic but does anyone remember when Verizon’s CFO Fran Shammo said 600/700 would interfere with each other? Not only was he wrong about that, Verizon wasn’t aggressive enough in the AWS-3 auction. Then they completely sat out the 600 MHz auction. Testing T-Mobile over the last few weeks band 71 has made a remarkable difference in coverage. My home area was just edge four years ago then by adding 12/71 I get coverage in my basement no problem. I’m sure T-Mobile plans to add 600 MHz to every site in the US. It would make sense to do so , it’s just going to take time.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Checker79 View Post
    ...., Verizon wasn’t aggressive enough in the AWS-3 auction......
    Considering the results of the AWS-3 auction, I find it hard to believe that anyone "wasn't aggressive enough".

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...ord-44-9b-bids

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