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Thread: Why am I not seeing band 12 or 71 anywhere even with Pixel 3a?

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    Why am I not seeing band 12 or 71 anywhere even with Pixel 3a?

    I used to have Tmobile but switched to AT&T (about a year ago) because I got tired of the congestion and lack of Tmobile seeming to want to use anything but band 66 or band 2 in my area (Southern California).

    Now that bands 12 and 71 should both be working, I am considering returning.

    I have been testing Tmobile coverage using US Mobile (a Tmobile MVNO) and although I am seeing good coverage overall, I still have yet to see any real evidence that either band 12 or band 71 actually exist. Do the Tmobile MVNOs use these bands at all? The Tmobile coverage maps indicate that the entire area here is blanketed in both band 12 and 71 coverage. I'm using a factory unlocked Pixel 3a which should get both bands but neither Cellmapper nor Network Cell Info show them at all. I would like to go back to Tmobile because indoor reception has never been great on band 66 or 2.

    Even in a couple of spots where I have gotten -120db with band 66 or 2, I still see no evidence of the phone recognizing band 12 or 71.

    If I actually switch to a Tmobile account rather than using the MVNO, should I THEN see something?

    Also, if I do go back to Tmobile and this time purchase a 5G phone, will band 71 then become a priority band or will I STILL struggle to see it at all?

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    T-Mobile may not switch to band 12 unless it sees basically no signal on any of the other bands. Band 12 especially has a small amount of bandwidth available, so T-Mobile would rather someone hold onto a weak band 2 signal so long as it's still usable.

    I've connected to band 12 on Mint (another T-Mobile MVNO,) so there's no particular prohibition on MVNOs using band 12. Just depends on the area and what other bands are available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebr View Post
    T-Mobile may not switch to band 12 unless it sees basically no signal on any of the other bands. Band 12 especially has a small amount of bandwidth available, so T-Mobile would rather someone hold onto a weak band 2 signal so long as it's still usable.

    I've connected to band 12 on Mint (another T-Mobile MVNO,) so there's no particular prohibition on MVNOs using band 12. Just depends on the area and what other bands are available.
    That's what I thought. So basically Tmobile has gone and spent huge amounts of money to provide access to a band that hardly anyone will ever get access to even when their call is choppy, and will possibly drop. Now I remember why I left Tmobile!

    If I purchase a 5G phone, might it then use band 71 or is 5G also something that Tmobile customers will rarely have access too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    That's what I thought. So basically Tmobile has gone and spent huge amounts of money to provide access to a band that hardly anyone will ever get access to even when their call is choppy, and will possibly drop. Now I remember why I left Tmobile!

    If I purchase a 5G phone, might it then use band 71 or is 5G also something that Tmobile customers will rarely have access too?
    Presumably T-Mo will favor band 71/5G on a 5G phone, knowing the marketing importance of having people seeing that "5G" icon light up on the phone.

    I guess my question to you would be, what's the advantage of spending $1000 on a 5G phone so you can save $10-20/month trying to make T-Mo work as well as the other carriers already seem to work in your area.



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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    Presumably T-Mo will favor band 71/5G on a 5G phone, knowing the marketing importance of having people seeing that "5G" icon light up on the phone.

    I guess my question to you would be, what's the advantage of spending $1000 on a 5G phone so you can save $10-20/month trying to make T-Mo work as well as the other carriers already seem to work in your area...
    @elecconnec WARNING! Stop making sense you're confusing some people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    Presumably T-Mo will favor band 71/5G on a 5G phone, knowing the marketing importance of having people seeing that "5G" icon light up on the phone.

    I guess my question to you would be, what's the advantage of spending $1000 on a 5G phone so you can save $10-20/month trying to make T-Mo work as well as the other carriers already seem to work in your area.



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    Well,
    1 - Verizon is pretty good but I get practically no coverage whatsoever in my house.
    2 - Tmobile seems to be better than AT&T around here unless I am talking about indoor coverage. This is Tmobile's weak spot. That's why I asked about the 600 and 700mhz bands.

    So, I figure that if one owns a 5G phone, it might be more likely to use band 71 and thus perform better indoors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    Well,
    1 - Verizon is pretty good but I get practically no coverage whatsoever in my house.
    2 - Tmobile seems to be better than AT&T around here unless I am talking about indoor coverage. This is Tmobile's weak spot. That's why I asked about the 600 and 700mhz bands.

    So, I figure that if one owns a 5G phone, it might be more likely to use band 71 and thus perform better indoors.
    5G right now needs an anchor band on LTE. So you'd be connected to 2 or 66, and have n71/71 in use on carrier aggregation. Phone calls are also VoLTE, VoNR I's not available yet. Right now we are seeing non stand alone (NSA) NR. Once stand alone (SA) is avail, that's when you can see n71 as primary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    Well,
    1 - Verizon is pretty good but I get practically no coverage whatsoever in my house.
    2 - Tmobile seems to be better than AT&T around here unless I am talking about indoor coverage. This is Tmobile's weak spot. That's why I asked about the 600 and 700mhz bands.

    So, I figure that if one owns a 5G phone, it might be more likely to use band 71 and thus perform better indoors.
    To be blunt, if you’re only getting poor coverage in your house on Verizon but it works “pretty good” everywhere else then why not just enable WiFi calling and call it a day?
    Last edited by DebiLee; 02-24-2020 at 01:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post

    Also, if I do go back to Tmobile and this time purchase a 5G phone, will band 71 then become a priority band or will I STILL struggle to see it at all?
    3GPP is scheduled to complete the Stand-Alone version of 5GNR with DSS and Spectrum Slicing by end of March 2020. It will take time for new phones and networks to upgrade to the new 5G version. Currently every network and cell phone is running Non-Stand-Alone 5G that is 4G LTE Controlling 5G without DSS or NS. I am not buying a 5G phone until the phone can support Stand-Alone 5G with DSS and NS. At that point with DSS all of T-Mobile’s spectrum can with virtualization that can provide both LTE and SA-5G on the same spectrum blocks. By that point T-Mobile will have most of Sprint’s spectrum that will give the new T-Mobile a very robust deep bandwidth 5G service. Don’t make the mistake of getting a Non-Stand-alone 5G phone that may not be able to be upgraded when SA-5G is supported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    3GPP is scheduled to complete the Stand-Alone version of 5GNR with DSS and Spectrum Slicing by end of March 2020. It will take time for new phones and networks to upgrade to the new 5G version. Currently every network and cell phone is running Non-Stand-Alone 5G that is 4G LTE Controlling 5G without DSS or NS. I am not buying a 5G phone until the phone can support Stand-Alone 5G with DSS and NS. At that point with DSS all of T-Mobile’s spectrum can with virtualization that can provide both LTE and SA-5G on the same spectrum blocks. By that point T-Mobile will have most of Sprint’s spectrum that will give the new T-Mobile a very robust deep bandwidth 5G service. Don’t make the mistake of getting a Non-Stand-alone 5G phone that may not be able to be upgraded when SA-5G is supported.
    If FierceWireless is to be believed, the S20 supports SA and DSS. Network slicing doesn't have anything to do with the phone.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/devic...-wave-spectrum

    Samsung said the S20 series is also suited for both non-standalone and standalone 5G deployment mode capabilities and support dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology.

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    B71 still isn't rolled out everywhere. Per the rollout schedule, phases 7-10 are taking place in 2020.

    Coverage improvement with B71 varies by location. West Coast states, particularly CA, are the least improved. Improvement is mainly in the interior states with sparse coverage to begin with. Highly developed areas benefit least.

    B12 is a fallback band, and isn't available everywhere. That's why T-Mo paid 8bil for B71.


    >Now that bands 12 and 71 should both be working, I am considering returning...although I am seeing good coverage overall, I still have yet to see any real evidence that either band 12 or band 71 actually exist.

    Bad reasoning. Just because your phone doesn't connect to a band doesn't mean it isn't there, in addition to above qualifiers. It's also naive to base judgment on quality of service to whether or not a band exists in any given area. If you have "good coverage," what's the problem?

    Crowdsourced maps aside, pros use RF spectrum analyzer for wireless site survey. Portable units can be found for cheap--starting at around $100'ish. If you want to get geeked, spend some money and learn something new.


    >if I do go back to Tmobile and this time purchase a 5G phone, will band 71 then become a priority band or will I STILL struggle to see it at all?

    B71 support started with Qualcomm X55 modem this year. These are only in flagship phones. X60 next year will get VoNR for SA, along with carrier aggregation and improvements everywhere. Cheaper Qualcomm chips are rumored for mid-range this year, but it's still a rumor. If you get 5G now, you will pay mucho for a beta product.

    I agree with pundits that 5G on low-band is mainly for marketing purposes, and to prime the pump for 5G handset buys. It won't do anything for better speed or coverage. At the other end, high-bands (eg mmWave) face severe restriction on coverage. The mid-band (1-6GHz, or 2.5GHz for T-Mo) will be the sweet spot for both speed and coverage. But that still needs spectrum to be auctioned and allocated, then built out, and new handsets to be rolled out. It will take some years.

    For midband, T-Mo has 2.5GHz (B41), AT&T has large holding of B2 (1900MHz) and smaller chunks of B30 (2300MHz), VZW has large holdings of B4 (1700/2100MHz). The problem for the latter two is that those spectrum is currently fully deployed.

    Carriers are looking at the two midband auctions this year, the CBRS aunction in June (3.5GHz for 70MHz of Priority Access License, or Tier 2), and the C-band auction (TBA, 280MHz of 3.7-4.2GHz). These spectrum will be very important to carriers' 5G plans, particularly VZW's, much more than the high-band auctions. T-Mo has the advantage of already owning 2.5GHz.

    This means that whatever phones you buy or have now will be obsolete in 2 years, because they won't have the new mid-bands.

    http://phonearena.com/news/Cheat-she...he-USA_id77933

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    I used to have Tmobile but switched to AT&T (about a year ago) because I got tired of the congestion and lack of Tmobile seeming to want to use anything but band 66 or band 2 in my area (Southern California).

    Now that bands 12 and 71 should both be working, I am considering returning.

    I have been testing Tmobile coverage using US Mobile (a Tmobile MVNO) and although I am seeing good coverage overall, I still have yet to see any real evidence that either band 12 or band 71 actually exist. Do the Tmobile MVNOs use these bands at all? The Tmobile coverage maps indicate that the entire area here is blanketed in both band 12 and 71 coverage. I'm using a factory unlocked Pixel 3a which should get both bands but neither Cellmapper nor Network Cell Info show them at all. I would like to go back to Tmobile because indoor reception has never been great on band 66 or 2.

    Even in a couple of spots where I have gotten -120db with band 66 or 2, I still see no evidence of the phone recognizing band 12 or 71.

    If I actually switch to a Tmobile account rather than using the MVNO, should I THEN see something?

    Also, if I do go back to Tmobile and this time purchase a 5G phone, will band 71 then become a priority band or will I STILL struggle to see it at all?
    T-Mobile will generally put you on midband (L1900/L2100) as your primary LTE band when available and then aggregate that with low band (where available). Given higher upload speeds on midband with more spectrum, T-Mobile is doing the right thing by not defaulting you to low and unless midband is non-existent or very weak.

    There are certainly places, especially in SoCal given the NIMBY issues in some areas, where an area could be covered by DAS nodes that are midband only, which can explain certain use cases of very weak midband LTE and no low band.

    Overall, there is a very significant percentage of macro sites that have L700 and a growing number of sites with L600 in SoCal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeuten View Post
    If FierceWireless is to be believed, the S20 supports SA and DSS. Network slicing doesn't have anything to do with the phone.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/devic...-wave-spectrum
    Good news about the S20 but I only said I didn’t want to buy a 5G phone until it was SA 5G. You know a lot more about this 5G than I do and most of the people on these HoFo boards. I read a article that said a NSA phone will work on a SA 5G network but will always be treated as a different type of device than a SA native 5G phone. I also read in another article that putting a NSA phone on a 5G SA network would be similar to putting a solid State Drive into a old laptop but it will never be able to get all the advantages of being put in a new laptop with higher bandwidth buses. I guess I just need to have 3GPP to release the SA 5G first and not be a early adopters of NSA 5G devices till this shakes out with all this new 5G technology.

    Thanks for info on Network Slicing since I am still getting my head around that new feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    To be blunt, if you’re only getting poor coverage in your house on Verizon but it works “pretty good” everywhere else then why not just enable WiFi calling and call it a day?
    LOL. Sorry for the laugh but I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone. I have called and spoken with Verizon reps almost a dozen times and I have been told yes of course to know you must have a Verizon branded phone. I went this route when trying to sign up for a network extender through them only to be told in the stores and by the phone reps that yes a network extender works with a prepaid account, only to try it myself and find out that no it does NOT work with a prepaid account. If you get a supervisor on the phone of course they tell you it will not work, but any of the tier one people or apparently the reps in the stores will almost always tell you it does work. So I just don't trust them when I ask if WiFi calling works with a non branded unlocked phone. I have even asked in the forums with no luck and my research through the forums results in contradictory results. For what it's worth, my US Mobile TMobile account works with WiFi calling but my US Mobile Verizon account does not.
    And btw, Verizon has been basically out of stock on network extenders for months.

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