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Thread: DT Sets Sights on T-Mobile Being #1 Carrier in US

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    T-Mobile and Sprint had no obligation to the market place to provide "Happy Meal" rates. They are a for-profit business and have every right to charge more if they want.
    I never suggested T-Mo or Sprint had an obligation to be a second tier carrier, I am suggesting it's better for consumers to have a mix of first and second tier carriers as options.

    Because I personally am a consumer, and not a wireless carrier, what's good for carriers is far less important to me than what's good for consumers.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    ......They are a for-profit business and have every right to charge more if they want.
    Yes, but they won't be able to (the market won't allow it) until their coverage is equal to the other carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    ..... does it overly matter which one they pick?.......
    At some point it becomes a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge pickup truck argument. Yes, people have strong preferences but most corporate buyers would look at them as cord-wood, same-o, same-o. I think that's where T-Mobile wants to get to: looking the same to a corporate buyer as AT&T or Verizon. Beyond that, to the individual, it may come down to the value of T-Mobile Tuesdays.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Yes, but they won't be able to (the market won't allow it) until their coverage is equal to the other carriers.

    At some point it becomes a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge pickup truck argument. Yes, people have strong preferences but most corporate buyers would look at them as cord-wood, same-o, same-o. I think that's where T-Mobile wants to get to: looking the same to a corporate buyer as AT&T or Verizon. Beyond that, to the individual, it may come down to the value of T-Mobile Tuesdays.
    I assume you are mostly kidding about the T-Mo Tuesdays, but last year when I was negotiating with T-Mo, trying to move from my grandfathered plan to one with Canadian roaming for the least amount of price increase, I told my (teenaged) kids we might be jumping ship to Cricket. The first thing they said was "but what about T-Mobile Tuesday?"



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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    If someone is going to pick one of 3 carriers who offer almost unilateral coverage, at almost a unilateral price point, does it overly matter which one they pick?
    It only matters if you can still differentiate yourself as a better value to the consumer. Hence why I believe T-Mobile will still keep competing.

    I would also expect AT&T and Verizon to try and poach as many Sprint customers as possible. Perhaps in certain select areas, Sprint customers get worse service when the network is altered. It could happen, and if Verizon and AT&T were smart, they have alternative offers ready to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    I never suggested T-Mo or Sprint had an obligation to be a second tier carrier, I am suggesting it's better for consumers to have a mix of first and second tier carriers as options.
    You can suggest that, but how does the government achieve that without trampling on T-Mobile's and Sprint's chance to compete on a more level playing field by merging?

    Some would say that its better for the consumers to have third company that is better able to deploy the spectrum that Sprint and T-Mobile purchased instead of letting it go unused because Sprint didn't have the resources to fully deploy it.

    Price is only one component to the consumer's benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    It only matters if you can still differentiate yourself as a better value to the consumer. Hence why I believe T-Mobile will still keep competing.

    I would also expect AT&T and Verizon to try and poach as many Sprint customers as possible. Perhaps in certain select areas, Sprint customers get worse service when the network is altered. It could happen, and if Verizon and AT&T were smart, they have alternative offers ready to go.
    I'm not suggesting they are not going to compete, what I feel they won't compete on anymore though is price. Yes, they can have a perceived value, and their image certainly helps, but if it's all smoke and mirrors, does it really benefit the consumer? As you said, they are under zero obligation to be a value carrier, and this is 100% correct. The days of TMobile being a value oriented carrier are done, they are under no obligation to be the carrier to keep prices down industry wide anymore. Whether or not this turns out good or bad for the consumer remains to be seen. The world isn't going to end or anything, but people can expect to pay more for their wireless service going forward.


    Before the merger closes, I would not be shocked to see Sprint try to move as many boost users to postpaid as they can. This move wouldn't surprise me.
    Last edited by hofonewb9; 02-24-2020 at 08:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I'm not suggesting they are not going to compete, what I feel they won't compete on anymore though is price. Yes, they can have a perceived value, and their image certainly helps, but if it's all smoke and mirrors, does it really benefit the consumer? As you said, they are under zero obligation to be a value carrier, and this is 100% correct. The days of TMobile being a value oriented carrier are done, they are under no obligation to be the carrier to keep prices down industry wife anymore. Whether or not this turns out good or bad for the consumer remains to be seen. The world isn't going to end or anything, but people can expect to pay more for their wireless service going forward.


    Before the merger closes, I would not be shocked to see Sprint try to move as many boost users to postpaid as they can. This move wouldn't surprise me.
    You are probably right. As the network improves and it will over time, the prices will be in line with verizon and att. They kind of already are for one line. Starts at $60 plus tax for essentials (not counting the talk and text only plan) since it has no data. Both verizon and att offer tiered data plans.

    Tmobile may stay one notch below the other two price wise for a while as they build out more even after the 3 years.

    Hard to know for sure at this point. The way I look at it tmobile wont have as much incentive to be uncarrier as they did back in 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    When we talk about price increases, we're talking about current new customer prices.
    T-Mobile agreed to not raise prices, even on plans offered to new customers, for 3 years:

    "To remove any remaining doubt or concerns about New T-Mobile’s prices while we are combining our networks over the next three years, T-Mobile today is submitting to the Commission a commitment that I stand behind – a commitment that New T-Mobile will make available the same or better rate plans for our services as those offered today by T-Mobile or Sprint. We believe this merger makes consumers better off, and we're willing to put our money where our mouth is. Period. "

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf

    There was no such commitment before the merger so this is a great benefit to consumers. All of the speculation about price increases can be tossed aside for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I'm not suggesting they are not going to compete, what I feel they won't compete on anymore though is price.
    Actually lower prices are coming for some customers:


    "With the new T-Mobile Connect, all U.S. and Puerto Rico consumers will get an unprecedented HALF OFF of T-Mobile’s lowest priced plan, and access to the New T-Mobile’s supercharged 5G network. At just $15 per month, the plan will give customers unlimited talk and text with 2GB of high-speed smartphone data. That is an estimated annual savings of $180 per year! For $25 per month, customers get 5GB of high-speed data. And because we know that customers use more data every year, T-Mobile Connect will also have an innovative Annual Data Upgrade to give customers an additional 500MB of data per month, every year, for the next five years! This is the first plan that automatically gets bigger and bigger – every, single, year. "


    https://www.t-mobile.com/news/superc...ncarrier-moves

    Despite what the naysayers claim, there are many benefits headed the way of T-Mobile & Sprint customers along with the millions who decide to port in their service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    When we talk about price increases, we're talking about current new customer prices.

    Yes, I realize that we grandfathered customers aren't seeing (significant*) price increases, but the fact that you're still on a seven-year old Simple Choice plan really just confirms T-Mo has raised rates, since you haven't switched to a current plan, presumably because they cost more than the old plan you're still clinging to.

    Similarly, when I finally bit the bullet this year and moved my 5-line family plan from a 15-year old, $120 (incl. taxes) "MyFaves" plan to a $140 Simple Choice plan to get the modern T-Mo perqs of free international data and mobile hotspot, I moved from saving $50/month vs. T-Mo's current Magenta offerings, to one "only" $30 cheaper. The important word here, of course, being *cheaper*.

    So, we've established that both my circa 2005 and your (and now my) circa 2013-ish T-Mo plans are both cheaper than T-Mo's current offerings. Co-inkadinkally, both of these plans hail from T-Mo's pre-LTE/network expansion era, almost as if running a smaller, inferior network forced them to deeply discount their service to remain competitive in a, let's call it a "Sprint-style", fashion.

    As I've said many times, IMHO, the tragic fallout in this merger isn't (just) the reduction of four competitors to three, but the loss of disparate-size/quality competitors. If your small town had 15 restaurants, but each and every one was an haute-cuisine steakhouse with $45 entrees, it'd might look like you had a vibrant and competitive restaurant market, unless you were looking for a $4 Happy Meal. T-Mo used to be the Happy Meal carrier, but they just merged into being an haute-cuisine carrier. You're happy because you think you've grandfathered into the lifetime Happy Meal plan and are looking forward to filet mignons being served next year for the same price. And maybe you (and I) have won that lottery, and will get wireless champagne on a beer budget forever, but just maybe someday T-Mo will introduce a feature or a policy that makes it difficult to stay on your Happy Meal plan (maybe an increase to the regulatory programs fee from the current $3.16/line to $10/line? Maybe a future AT&T-style "bonus" that comes with an unavoidable surcharge?) and suddenly you'll look around for other options only to find they're aren't that many left...


    (*Those of us on non-tax and fee included grandfathered plans like Simple Choice *have* had slight rate increases as T-Mo has slightly increased their bulls--t "regulatory programs fee" from $0.85 to $3.16 per line in small increments over the last several years.)

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    Pretty funny coming from someone that claims his only T-Mobile account is a very old grandfather $5 No-Data service plan that is constantly claiming T-Mobile will raise prices for their customers after the merger is completed. Get back to us when you got some proof other than pretending to be Nostradamus predicting future T-Mobile service plans that will raise their customers prices. I have been on three different T-Mobile plans and each was cheaper and more robust than the plan I lift under T-Mobile.

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    Coverage wise tmobile should get better and better. All we have now is just speculation at this point.

    I think the real insight will come with how we see mike running the show, and also any uncarrier events that may or may not come

    After the 3 years is up we should really start to see how things will go.

    If tmobile continues to build and really pushes into rural areas, ill accept some price adjustments as long as the coverage matches the price tag

    I'm hoping one day to have tmobile for tv also. Definitely burned out on directv, fios, and cox.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    T-Mobile agreed to not raise prices, even on plans offered to new customers, for 3 years:




    There was no such commitment before the merger so this is a great benefit to consumers. All of the speculation about price increases can be tossed aside for now.
    Yes, for exactly three years. What's your point? In three years the devil comes back for the souls we promised in return.

    I remember when I was a kid in the 1970s, comic books were 30 cents. One month, all of the Marvel comics suddenly had a big starburst on the cover where the price normally was, proclaiming "Still Only 30 Cents!". That lasted two months. On the third month they were 35 cents.

    When I was a DISH Network dealer in the 90s, we knew exactly when any price increases were coming. It was the day after any of Charlie Ergen's proclamations that he'd "guarantee no price increases" until a certain date expired.

    So, call me a cynic, but when Legere exclaimed "I guarantee no price increases for three years!" I heard "I guarantee a price increase in exactly 37 months!"


    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Actually lower prices are coming for some customers:


    "With the new T-Mobile Connect, all U.S. and Puerto Rico consumers will get an unprecedented HALF OFF of T-Mobile’s lowest priced plan, and access to the New T-Mobile’s supercharged 5G network...."

    Despite what the naysayers claim, there are many benefits headed the way of T-Mobile & Sprint customers along with the millions who decide to port in their service.
    That may have been T-Mobile's biggest fib of the process. I do believe they'll launch that $15 plan, but the fib was describing it "half off T-Mobile's lowest price plan". That strongly implies the price of T-Mobile's current lowest cost plan is being cut in half, but instead a new *very* limited plan is being sold for half the price of T-Mobile's current lowest price *unlimited* plan. It'd be like if Ford advertised they were cutting the price of their lowest priced Mustang in half, and when you arrived at the dealership to buy one, they trotted out a bicycle with a Ford Mustang logo silkscreened on it.

    And, plans equal to or better than this already exist in the MVNO market. (E.g. Mint Mobile, a T-Mo MVNO offers unlimited T&T, and 3GB high speed data/unlimited throttled for $15.) This new T-Mo Connect plan (also "guaranteed for three years!" as I recall, or maybe this one was five years) seems designed to help cover for the inevitable eventual loss of many of the current low priced T-Mo and Sprint-based MVNO plans in the post merger era.



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    It’s it so nice all these AT&T and Verizon supporters that spend their day giving us Nostradamus predictions to warn all the T-Mobile customers that some day T-Mobile will raise our prices for service. Funny they never predict that Verizon and AT&T will also some day raise their prices even higher than T-Mobile. When you confront these people they reply we aren’t talking about grandfather T-Mobile customers but only talking about net new T-Mobile customers service. Would anyone of these People explain why they aren’t on the AT&T and Verizon boards warning there fellow customers that both AT&T and Verizon will be also someday raise their customers prices? Do they expect us to believe AT&T and Verizon will never raise their service prices?

    This is just more sour grapes from the AT&T and Verizon supporter that are still upset that the merger was approved and that the New T-Mobile will be more competitive against both AT&T and Verizon....

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Pretty funny coming from someone that claims his only T-Mobile account is a very old grandfather $5 No-Data service plan that is constantly claiming T-Mobile will raise prices for their customers after the merger is completed. Get back to us when you got some proof other than pretending to be Nostradamus predicting future T-Mobile service plans that will raise their customers prices. I have been on three different T-Mobile plans and each was cheaper and more robust than the plan I lift under T-Mobile.
    ???

    As to T-Mo raising prices, I'm claiming that they will raise prices for *new* customers, at least when merger promises expire, and they will most likely continue to slowly, incrementally raise fees on grandfathered plans as they have for the last decade, which is effectively a price increase for existing customers.

    As to my plan, when have I ever claimed my "only T-Mo account is a very old $5 plan?"

    I've mentioned countless times here that I've been a relatively happy (and continuous) T-Mo customer since late 2001 (to be 100% honest, it wasn't "T-Mobile" yet, but still "Voicestream" back then.) I just don't view the world through magenta colored glasses and pretend T-Mo is perfect and can do no wrong.

    I may have mentioned I (used to) have a $5/line unlimited data plan *add-on* (on top of my unlimited voice and text family plan). I gave that up last year when I switched to Simple Choice North America to get T-Mo's international roaming benefits. I have never had a "no data" plan with T-Mo- in fact, the ability to have unlimited (9.6kbps!) data for my tethered PDA was part of what attracted me to Voicestream back in 2001! (Back then, Voicestream included PAM or "Phone as Modem" service, letting you use your voice minutes for dialup data or faxing if you had a PAM-compatible GSM phone.)

    I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around this, but some of us here that occasionally criticize T-Mobile are actually just plain ol' T-Mobile customers, not undercover paid shills sent here at the behest of the black-ops divisions of competing carriers.

    T-Mo is your wireless carrier, not a member of your family. As radio talk show host Bruce Williams used to say, "never love anything that can't love you back."



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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    It’s it so nice all these AT&T and Verizon supporters that spend their day giving us Nostradamus predictions to warn all the T-Mobile customers that some day T-Mobile will raise our prices for service. Funny they never predict that Verizon and AT&T will also some day raise their prices even higher than T-Mobile. When you confront these people they reply we aren’t talking about grandfather T-Mobile customers but only talking about net new T-Mobile customers service. Would anyone of these People explain why they aren’t on the AT&T and Verizon boards warning there fellow customers that both AT&T and Verizon will be also someday raise their customers prices? Do they expect us to believe AT&T and Verizon will never raise their service prices?

    This is just more sour grapes from the AT&T and Verizon supporter that are still upset that the merger was approved and that the New T-Mobile will be more competitive against both AT&T and Verizon....
    Another nonsensical post trying to change the topic of the conversation. The reason the people aren't on the Verizon and at&t board is because the people don't use Verizon and at&t. No matter how much you try to insinuate they are. I can guarantee you I pay LESS than you do for TMobile service, I can guarantee you I've been a customer for LONGER than you have. I can guarantee you I know MORE about the company than you do, and have stronger ties TO the company than you do. So get off your high horse pretending to be Mr. TMobile. The gimmick gets old and makes you look foolish.


    The answer your question, of course Verizon and at&t will raise rates. This is the issue. Without a TMobile or a Sprint to keep prices down, all 3 will slowly start to raise rates to increase profit. You posted some nonsense in some other board, claiming you hope Verizon and at&t raise rates, yet can't explain why. As I corrected you in that board, I'll say the same here, if Verizon and at&t raise rates, all it will lead to it TMobile raising rates. That's it. It will benefit nobody but shareholders of the 3 carriers. This may matter to you but I can also guarantee you it doesn't matter to the vast majority of consumers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    ???

    As to T-Mo raising prices, I'm claiming that they will raise prices for *new* customers, at least when merger promises expire, and they will most likely continue to slowly, incrementally raise fees on grandfathered plans as they have for the last decade, which is effectively a price increase for existing customers.
    about your warning in the future that net new T-Mobile customers will pay more for service because of the merger. Are you saying that AT&T and Verizon will never raise their prices to their net new customers someday?

    Because that possible price increases by T-Mobile is what most of the other network’s customers that are upset about this merger claim, if it is allowed to happen are claiming why it must be stopped. It is just sour grapes about the merger. When it is all about the other networks customers are upset that T-Mobile will become more competitive with AT&T and Verizon.

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