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Thread: Verizon, T-Mobile bicker over C-band auction rules

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    This only applies if cost of service remains equal. With a MNO there is no cost per user, it's tied up in overhead and the network. If those costs increase, you don't make more profit per user if you keep prices the same, you make less. Price increases are generally the result of a companies price increasing to provide service to that customer, I mean investors aren't going to eat that added cost. With carriers spending more to provide service, they all would have zero qualms about getting that money back from their customers. If Verizon and at&t raised rates, TMobile would also raise rates.
    So how much extra will AT&T and Verizon charge when they are hemorrhaging customers to the New T-Mobile to make up for all the money they wasted on mmWave spectrum? Open Signal just tested only 6% of Verizon 5G phones will connect on mmWave phones when they tested just walking near the mmWave transmitter. Verizon going to have to deploy a ton more small cells to make that work on every street. No wonder AT&T was thinking about raising prices for 5G service...
    Last edited by shilohcane; 02-24-2020 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    This only applies if cost of service remains equal. With a MNO there is no cost per user, it's tied up in overhead and the network.
    You're saying there is no cost per user. So that would mean, adding additional customers is just pure profit. Hence no need to raise rates to increase profits if you have good customer growth.


    If Verizon and at&t raised rates, TMobile would also raise rates.
    As a T-Mobile customer, that's not something I am concerned with for at least 3 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    You're saying there is no cost per user. So that would mean, adding additional customers is just pure profit. Hence no need to raise rates to increase profits if you have good customer growth.




    As a T-Mobile customer, that's not something I am concerned with for at least 3 years.
    This is incorrect, as the more customers you add, the more you spend. The cost is tied in infrastructure. You need more capacity and bandwidth to supply to those extra customers. You can't just add millions of cheap users, and expect your network to give them acceptable service spending the minimum on it. Doesn't work that way.


    Let's use you as an example, you pay what, 3.99 a month for data? Yea, you are a customer TMobile doesn't overly want. You are a loss. The bandwidth you take up can better be served on a customer who's paying much more for data. Now they'll be nice to your face, make you think you are important, but will do everything in their power behind the scenes to make it harder and harder for you to keep that plan. To the point you'll have to post on a forum on a message board about workarounds to keep your plan.


    Hey, remember when you were on here trying to convince everyone that Sprint would have to raise rates if they didn't get the merger? Your logic applies to TMobile as well. Sprint would of had to raise rates, to pay off increased network costs, and increased debt. Why do you think this also doesn't apply to TMobile? Because you like them better? Seems....an illogical reason.
    Last edited by hofonewb9; 02-24-2020 at 08:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    So how much extra will AT&T and Verizon charge when they are hemorrhaging customers to the New T-Mobile to make up for all the money they wasted on mmWave spectrum? Open Signal just tested only 6% of Verizon 5G phones will connect on mmWave phones when they tested just walking near the mmWave transmitter. Verizon going to have to deploy a ton more small cells to make that work on every street. No wonder AT&T was thinking about raising prices for 5G service...
    Likely the same amount TMobile will be charging at the time.

    Remember how some used to say it wasn't fair that Verizon and at&t were spending sometimes double or triple TMobile and Sprint were on CAPEX? This is why Verizon and at&t also charged more. Their shareholders weren't going to eat the extra cost. That's a big no no. Now that TMobile is increasing their CAPEX guess what they'll do.........I'll give you a hint, it won't be shareholders eating the extra cost......it never is. You know how people say at&t is increasing costs to pay down the extra debt assumed by the time Warner deal? Guess who's paying off the extra debt that's being assumed by the Sprint deal on TMobile, again we can play multiple choice here.

    Remember when you were on here telling everyone Sprint would have to raise rates if the merger was stopped? Remember? You said they'd have to raise rates in order to pay off network improvements and their debt. What will TMobile do to pay off their network improvements and debt? Give you pastries?
    Last edited by hofonewb9; 02-24-2020 at 08:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    This is incorrect, as the more customers you add, the more you spend. The cost is tied in infrastructure. You need more capacity and bandwidth to supply to those extra customers. You can't just add millions of cheap users, and expect your network to give them acceptable service spending the minimum on it. Doesn't work that way.
    Their yearly report states otherwise:

    1.9 million total net additions in Q4 2019- 7.0 million in 2019 - 6th year in a row of more than 5 million total net additions

    Strong Net income of $751 million, up 17%in Q4 2019- up 20% to $3.5 billion in 2019

    https://s22.q4cdn.com/194431217/file...gs-Release.pdf

    They had strong net income, strong net additions---where were the big rate hikes in 2019 you say are necessary to have this kind of income with this kind of customer growth??

    Let's use you as an example, you pay what, 3.99 a month for data? Yea, you are a customer TMobile doesn't overly want. You are a loss.
    You admitted the following today:

    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I can guarantee you I pay LESS than you do for TMobile service,
    So, for the record, that would make you a bigger loss to T-Mobile.




    Hey, remember when you were on here trying to convince everyone that Sprint would have to raise rates if they didn't get the merger?
    Yes.


    Your logic applies to TMobile as well.
    No.


    Sprint would of had to raise rates, to pay off increased network costs, and increased debt. Why do you think this also doesn't apply to TMobile?
    Because Sprint isn't adding 7 million customers in a year like T-Mobile did. Sprint is losing money while T-Mobile is earning money. There are many differences if you just compare the quarterly reports.

    But the biggest reason that T-Mobile isn't going to raise anyone's rates is because they agreed not to. I posted this earlier today but you may have missed it:

    "To remove any remaining doubt or concerns about New T-Mobile’s prices while we are combining our networks over the next three years, T-Mobile today is submitting to the Commission a commitment that I stand behind – a commitment that New T-Mobile will make available the same or better rate plans for our services as those offered today by T-Mobile or Sprint. We believe this merger makes consumers better off, and we're willing to put our money where our mouth is. Period. "

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf

    That's Legere's parting gift to T-Mobile customers. So despite what you're saying, somehow the new T-mobile will have to keep the shareholders happy without an ability to raise rates. I believe they'll do just fine.

    And maybe you'll be like elecconnec and say that they'll raise rates in three years. If you say that, you can't say it with any certainty. Nobody knows exactly what the wireless landscape will be in three years. Will they raise rates only for new plans? Or will they bump up the grandfathered plans too? Who cares? That's so far away it's not worth arguing about.

    What we know for sure is that during the next 37 months or so while they're merging these companies together, customers won't have to worry about any rate hikes whatsoever. So enjoy your plan that you pay so much less for.

  6. #66
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    At the margins, extra customers can be counted as pure revenue (minus acquisition costs, etc). But enough, and you need to expand and that costs money.
    iPhone 11 is my current primary phone. But I have more phones than lines. Back to only Prepaid with the changes in the economy.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    This is incorrect, as the more customers you add, the more you spend. The cost is tied in infrastructure. You need more capacity and bandwidth to supply to those extra customers. You can't just add millions of cheap users, and expect your network to give them acceptable service spending the minimum on it. Doesn't work that way.


    Let's use you as an example, you pay what, 3.99 a month for data? Yea, you are a customer TMobile doesn't overly want. You are a loss. The bandwidth you take up can better be served on a customer who's paying much more for data. Now they'll be nice to your face, make you think you are important, but will do everything in their power behind the scenes to make it harder and harder for you to keep that plan. To the point you'll have to post on a forum on a message board about workarounds to keep your plan.

    .
    That is why we are moving to 5G that is more spectrum efficient that increases bandwidth. 5G is between 20% to 25% more spectral efficient than 4GLTE. Now that The Sprint merger is approved, soon The New T-Mobile will have more sub- 6 Spectrum than both Verizon and AT&T combined. However some of your examples that T-Mobile doesn’t want Jet1000 as a customers is ridiculous. Where do you get stuff like that, it’s crazy stuff. Jet1000 just purchased a new S20 if T-Mobile didn’t want him as a customer they most likely would not have sold him that G20.

    BTW, are you an Ex-T-Mobile employee?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    BTW, are you an Ex-T-Mobile employee?
    He made the admission that he was an ex-employee in this post here:

    "I don't hide the fact I worked for TMobile for almost 12 years. I had a lot of fun there, and they paid me enough money to live a decent lifestyle and do what I wanted. It was a business agreement though, they needed and wanted a skill I could provide, I did it for them, and they reimbursed me for that skill. I owe them no loyalty or defending their honor or any nonsense like that"

    https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...7#post17107117

    I have no way to independently corroborate his claim.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Their yearly report states otherwise:

    1.9 million total net additions in Q4 2019- 7.0 million in 2019 - 6th year in a row of more than 5 million total net additions

    Strong Net income of $751 million, up 17%in Q4 2019- up 20% to $3.5 billion in 2019

    https://s22.q4cdn.com/194431217/file...gs-Release.pdf

    They had strong net income, strong net additions---where were the big rate hikes in 2019 you say are necessary to have this kind of income with this kind of customer growth??



    You admitted the following today:



    So, for the record, that would make you a bigger loss to T-Mobile.






    Yes.




    No.




    Because Sprint isn't adding 7 million customers in a year like T-Mobile did. Sprint is losing money while T-Mobile is earning money. There are many differences if you just compare the quarterly reports.

    But the biggest reason that T-Mobile isn't going to raise anyone's rates is because they agreed not to. I posted this earlier today but you may have missed it:

    "To remove any remaining doubt or concerns about New T-Mobile’s prices while we are combining our networks over the next three years, T-Mobile today is submitting to the Commission a commitment that I stand behind – a commitment that New T-Mobile will make available the same or better rate plans for our services as those offered today by T-Mobile or Sprint. We believe this merger makes consumers better off, and we're willing to put our money where our mouth is. Period. "

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf

    That's Legere's parting gift to T-Mobile customers. So despite what you're saying, somehow the new T-mobile will have to keep the shareholders happy without an ability to raise rates. I believe they'll do just fine.

    And maybe you'll be like elecconnec and say that they'll raise rates in three years. If you say that, you can't say it with any certainty. Nobody knows exactly what the wireless landscape will be in three years. Will they raise rates only for new plans? Or will they bump up the grandfathered plans too? Who cares? That's so far away it's not worth arguing about.

    What we know for sure is that during the next 37 months or so while they're merging these companies together, customers won't have to worry about any rate hikes whatsoever. So enjoy your plan that you pay so much less for.
    Right, they agreed not to raise anyone's current rates for 3 years. Care to share where they agreed not to raise to rates in general though? Here's a funny idea, soon after close TMobile, a new plan, 100gb of data before depo, 720p video throttle, with 15gb of lte hotspot, for $90 a month. Does this plan sound familiar? Your numbers are meaningless to be honest. TMobile is increasing capex, overhead and debt while merging with a company that is losing money as you pointed out. JL can say whatever he wants, he leaves soon, what does he care. He can promise you a nude selfie if he wants to.


    Right, I likely pay less than your little buddy. It's so cute you try to protect him. Anyways, I'm not the one on here trying to convince others TMobile won't raise rates.

    As I told you before, luckily for you TMobile will be taking over sprints government subsidized phone service. So if your rates ever do go up, you can just switch to one of those plans and play less than the 3.99 you are now!!! A win/win for you!!!!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    He made the admission that he was an ex-employee in this post here:

    "I don't hide the fact I worked for TMobile for almost 12 years. I had a lot of fun there, and they paid me enough money to live a decent lifestyle and do what I wanted. It was a business agreement though, they needed and wanted a skill I could provide, I did it for them, and they reimbursed me for that skill. I owe them no loyalty or defending their honor or any nonsense like that"

    https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...7#post17107117

    I have no way to independently corroborate his claim.
    I offered to let you get in contact with Liz Mcauliffe's team, I said pm me I'll set it up for you, funny, you never did. You instead tried to use it against me. Seems you have a habit of that. Just curious, do you ever blame yourself for the dwindling number of people who use these forums?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    That is why we are moving to 5G that is more spectrum efficient that increases bandwidth. 5G is between 20% to 25% more spectral efficient than 4GLTE. Now that The Sprint merger is approved, soon The New T-Mobile will have more sub- 6 Spectrum than both Verizon and AT&T combined. However some of your examples that T-Mobile doesn’t want Jet1000 as a customers is ridiculous. Where do you get stuff like that, it’s crazy stuff. Jet1000 just purchased a new S20 if T-Mobile didn’t want him as a customer they most likely would not have sold him that G20.

    BTW, are you an Ex-T-Mobile employee?
    Ask jet if he can add a line or do anything to his plan? If they really wanted people still on the tzones plan, you wouldn't have to jump through hoops to keep it. The fact you don't realize this, that the goal is to get people off of old plans, and onto new ones....is absolutely mind boggling........Why do you think carriers only make promos available to new plans......wanting him as a customer, and wanting him as a customer on a plan paying 3.99 a month for unlimited data are 2 different things.


    I have no way of independently verifying if he bought a s20. Anybody can buy an s20. I can go on samsung.com right now and order one.
    Last edited by hofonewb9; 02-25-2020 at 02:50 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    Right, they agreed not to raise anyone's current rates for 3 years. Care to share where they agreed not to raise to rates in general though?
    It was right in the letter that I already cited. The one directly to the FCC chairman. That's posted on the FCC website under docket Docket No. 18-197.

    I will quote what it says again:

    "New T-Mobile will make available the same or better rate plans for our services as those offered today by T-Mobile or Sprint."

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf


    See it says they will make the same or rate plans available as the ones Sprint and T-Mobile offers today. He doesn't just say he's locking rates in on current customers as you're trying to claim. In two years if someone wants to switch to T-Mobile, same or better rate plans will be available.

    JL can say whatever he wants, he leaves soon, what does he care.
    Legere made this commitment to the FCC on behalf of the company. His departure as CEO doesn't take away T-Mobile's obligation to meet this commitment. He still going to be on the Board for the foreseeable future.

    Here's another thing that Legere said in his FCC letter:

    "We are the Un-carrier. If we broke faith by raising rates and cutting back benefits, we would lose our loyal customers and destroy the future of our brand. I want to assure you that we would never do this. My management team and I can make this personal commitment because we believe in delivering on our promises, and we know if we do not, we will lose credibility and the trust of our customers. Our business plan and our future success are centered around building a world class 5G network for everyone and delivering more to consumers for less. "


    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf

    That pretty much sums it up right there.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    ....."New T-Mobile will make available the same or better rate plans for our services as those offered today by T-Mobile or Sprint."......
    You have to read what J.L. says with a great deal of care. If you go to a hotel and ask for their "best" rate, you won't get the same deal as if you ask for their "lowest" rate. A "better rate plan" is not necessary a "cheaper rate plan". They've only committed to offering the same rate plans or offering "better" rate plans. Since "better" does not translate to "cheaper", they've really made no commitment at all. "Better rate plan" could mean that the bills are printed with a four-color process, rather than two colors.
    Donald Newcomb

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    It was right in the letter that I already cited. The one directly to the FCC chairman. That's posted on the FCC website under docket Docket No. 18-197.

    I will quote what it says again:

    "New T-Mobile will make available the same or better rate plans for our services as those offered today by T-Mobile or Sprint."

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf


    See it says they will make the same or rate plans available as the ones Sprint and T-Mobile offers today. He doesn't just say he's locking rates in on current customers as you're trying to claim. In two years if someone wants to switch to T-Mobile, same or better rate plans will be available.



    Legere made this commitment to the FCC on behalf of the company. His departure as CEO doesn't take away T-Mobile's obligation to meet this commitment. He still going to be on the Board for the foreseeable future.

    Here's another thing that Legere said in his FCC letter:

    "We are the Un-carrier. If we broke faith by raising rates and cutting back benefits, we would lose our loyal customers and destroy the future of our brand. I want to assure you that we would never do this. My management team and I can make this personal commitment because we believe in delivering on our promises, and we know if we do not, we will lose credibility and the trust of our customers. Our business plan and our future success are centered around building a world class 5G network for everyone and delivering more to consumers for less. "


    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf

    That pretty much sums it up right there.
    This was disputed excellently in the post above. So no real reason to add anything to this. Like I said, how does 100gb depri, 720p video, and 15gb of lte hotspot for $90 a month sound? You dropping your current plan for that? It's "better" than their current plans!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    This was disputed excellently in the post above. So no real reason to add anything to this. Like I said, how does 100gb depri, 720p video, and 15gb of lte hotspot for $90 a month sound? You dropping your current plan for that? It's "better" than their current plans!!!
    As Legere said:

    "If we broke faith by raising rates and cutting back benefits, we would lose our loyal customers and destroy the future of our brand. "

    You trying to claim they're only going to offer a higher priced $90 plan goes directly against Legere's statement above. You're making multiple posts that they're going to raise rates. Who's your source? You're throwing out names like Liz Mcauliffe while you make numerous posts that higher rates are in the works. Have you been having lunch meetings with incoming CEO, Mike Sievert, who's giving you the inside scoop? Do tell.

    Everyone has a choice. They can read the words of Legere himself:

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1020416...02.01.2019.pdf

    Or they can take the word of hofonewb9 who yesterday claimed:

    "I can guarantee you I pay LESS than you do for TMobile service, I can guarantee you I've been a customer for LONGER than you have. I can guarantee you I know MORE about the company than you do, and have stronger ties TO the company than you do. "

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