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Thread: Verizon pegged as: loser, in the T-Mobile/Sprint deal

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    What's really laughable is that anyone thinks who was first out of the gate with any of this is important, or that consumers (other than us cellular nerds here) care about this. I'm guessing 80-90% of the AT&T customers whose LTE icons switched to "5Ge" six months ago think AT&T was first with 5G and they already have it.
    Verizon has the upper hand with 5G by a long shot. 5G itself isn't going to matter for years, what matters is that the CAPEX Verizon is putting towards 5G small cells also benefits their 4G LTE network, which will be their primary offering through the early- to mid-2020's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Verizon has the upper hand with 5G by a long shot. 5G itself isn't going to matter for years, what matters is that the CAPEX Verizon is putting towards 5G small cells also benefits their 4G LTE network, which will be their primary offering through the early- to mid-2020's.
    Verizon doesn’t even have usable 5G that is good for any thing other than running a static speed test. That mmWave only works outside with no obstruction, next to the transmitter, when you stand still and it isn’t raining in only sections of a couple of dozen cities. Verizon may have left some mmWave 5G In Downtown Miami and the airport but Verizon doesn’t have any other 5G in the state of Florida that is the 3rd most populated state.

    How AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon differ in their early 5G approach- OpenSignal Test 5G

    On T-Mobile’s 600Mhz 5G network we saw the greatest time connected to 5G of 53.0%. We were able to connect to a 5G signal just over half of the time during our testing on T-Mobile’s 600 MHz and slightly less on Sprint’s 2.5GHz 5G networks. With both T-Mobile’s mmWave and AT&T’s 850 MHz 5G networks we spent 10.6% of the time connected to a 5G signal during the walk tests, while we connected to a 5G signal on Verizon’s mmWave 5G just 6% of the time.“. https://www.opensignal.com/2020/02/2...ly-5g-approach
    Last edited by shilohcane; 02-21-2020 at 04:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Verizon doesnt even have usable 5G that is good for any thing other than running a static speed test. That mmWave only works outside with no obstruction, next to the transmitter, when you stand still and it isnt raining in only sections of a couple of dozen cities. Verizon may have left some mmWave 5G In Downtown Miami and the airport but Verizon doesnt have any other 5G in the state of Florida that is the 3rd most populated state.

    How AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon differ in their early 5G approach- OpenSignal Test 5G

    On T-Mobiles 600Mhz 5G network we saw the greatest time connected to 5G of 53.0%. We were able to connect to a 5G signal just over half of the time during our testing on T-Mobiles 600 MHz and slightly less on Sprints 2.5GHz 5G networks. With both T-Mobiles mmWave and AT&Ts 850 MHz 5G networks we spent 10.6% of the time connected to a 5G signal during the walk tests, while we connected to a 5G signal on Verizons mmWave 5G just 6% of the time.. https://www.opensignal.com/2020/02/2...ly-5g-approach
    I'm personally happy with AT&T, and for me, AT&T provides better service out of the two major players, but the simple fact of the matter is that Verizon is building a huge lead over all the other carriers with their small cell deployment.

    mmWave doesn't have to ever be a big player in mobile in order to matter. The marginal cost to upgrade 4G small cells to mmWave 5G is small compared to the cost to put them there in the first place. mmWave will primarily be for home internet, but will also deal with high density use cases (i.e. sports and event venues) far better than sub-6 4G/5G will. Phones will end up using mmWave some of the time as dense small-cell networks are upgraded for it, but when they're that dense, they'll have plenty of capacity on sub-6 bands anyway.

    Early tests of sub-6 5G are meaningless. It's barely faster than 4G, and it really doesn't matter at this point. T-Mobile is touting 5G as this amazing thing when AT&T is offering faster speeds with fake 5G. AT&T's branding of 5Ge is indefensible and annoying, but the simply reality is that the 4G LTE that they falsely call "5Ge" is faster than T-Mobile's actual 5G.

    However, what really matters is capacity and coverage. T-Mobile has been struggling with capacity after leading for a while over AT&T and Verizon is that area. T-Mobile has also done a poor job with coverage expansions, and still lags significantly behind the big two in coverage.

    T-Mobile's coverage is going to take a decade to catch up, since Verizon has historically had the largest LTE network at a claimed 81% coverage of the CONUS, while AT&T is rapidly deploying new sites for FirstNet that have to be adding to their coverage. There are a bunch of numbers floating around, and it's hard to tell what they're actually based on, but one site I found claims that Verizon has 70% coverage in the CONUS, with AT&T at 58% LTE and 70% including HSPA+, while T-Mobile claims 59% LTE including 600mhz. Considering that T-Mobile's LTE is paper thin in a lot of places, the fair comparison is AT&T HSPA+ to T-Mobile LTE, and AT&T has to have added a couple of percent to that 58% with new FirstNet coverage going online. I'm not sure how roaming partners are counted either, as Verizon has a lot of coverage provided by LTEiRA carriers, while AT&T has some provided by Commnet, Northeast Wireless, Viaero, and other like-native roaming partners.

    Verizon still has the upper hand, but they've got to figure out how to balance rural coverage expansions with urban/suburban small cell deployments so that AT&T doesn't catch up to them in the coverage department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Verizon doesnt even have usable 5G that is good for any thing other than running a static speed test. That mmWave only works outside with no obstruction, next to the transmitter, when you stand still and it isnt raining in only sections of a couple of dozen cities. Verizon may have left some mmWave 5G In Downtown Miami and the airport but Verizon doesnt have any other 5G in the state of Florida that is the 3rd most populated state.

    How AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon differ in their early 5G approach- OpenSignal Test 5G

    On T-Mobiles 600Mhz 5G network we saw the greatest time connected to 5G of 53.0%. We were able to connect to a 5G signal just over half of the time during our testing on T-Mobiles 600 MHz and slightly less on Sprints 2.5GHz 5G networks. With both T-Mobiles mmWave and AT&Ts 850 MHz 5G networks we spent 10.6% of the time connected to a 5G signal during the walk tests, while we connected to a 5G signal on Verizons mmWave 5G just 6% of the time.. https://www.opensignal.com/2020/02/2...ly-5g-approach
    When the 5G is no better than the 4G what does it matter? Because now your indicator says 5G?Name:  maxresdefault1.jpg
Views: 75
Size:  44.0 KB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    When the 5G is no better than the 4G what does it matter? Because now your indicator says 5G?Name:  maxresdefault1.jpg
Views: 75
Size:  44.0 KB
    At least 5G works on T-Mobile today and now that the Sprint deal has closed then T-Mobile will have the spectrum bandwidth to have faster 5G than LTE. MmWave is never going to work alone. Even if they add a small cell every couple of hundred feet it will be blocked by tree and building and car and bus in the nation. Sorry it is raining so no mmWave for you today. Verizon network has only 6% coverage where they have mmWave 5G today. Really how does Verizon improve that 6% coverage would be to put in 18 more small cells inside the same 200 to 300 feet that covers the same amount of customers as the one small cell that can’t connect since a tree is between the customers and the transmitter. Who cares about mmWave since it’s only useful function is to run static Speedtests. MmWave is almost useless in the real world wit the way customers use their phones.

    T-Mobile has a near term solution with the 2.5Ghz spectrum and DSS. DSS won’t support mmWave and Low band for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    At least 5G works on T-Mobile today and now that the Sprint deal has closed then T-Mobile will have the spectrum bandwidth to have faster 5G than LTE. MmWave is never going to work alone. Even if they add a small cell every couple of hundred feet it will be blocked by tree and building and car and bus in the nation. Sorry it is raining so no mmWave for you today. Verizon network has only 6% coverage where they have mmWave 5G today. Really how does Verizon improve that 6% coverage would be to put in 18 more small cells inside the same 200 to 300 feet that covers the same amount of customers as the one small cell that cant connect since a tree is between the customers and the transmitter. Who cares about mmWave since its only useful function is to run static Speedtests. MmWave is almost useless in the real world wit the way customers use their phones.

    T-Mobile has a near term solution with the 2.5Ghz spectrum and DSS. DSS wont support mmWave and Low band for years.
    The only value of 5G today is marketing for idiots who don't know what 5G even IS, and for that purpose, it doesn't matter what frequency it runs on or how it works.

    The actual benefits of 5G aren't going to be felt in any substantive way for sub-6 5G until the mid-2020's, and for mmWave for probably another year, and even then only for a relatively small number of home internet customers at first.

    The actual numbers for coverage from mmWave are about 1000-3000 feet depending on the test. Those frequency ranges have been used for microwave links for years. mmWave will have a big impact for home internet and LOS coverage in extreme density situations like sporting event venues. Once they have that kind of density, sub-6 4G and 5G will be fine for mobile applications.

    DSS supports low-band, it will never support mmWave because mmWave isn't used for 4G.

    Where I live in South Florida AT&T after the Sprint merger will be the distance #3 network very soon. AT&T is already the #3 network in South Florida now and doesnt even work in my neighborhood. As far as coverage in Florida T-Mobile works great but AT&T is spotty and sub-Par. I dont have a 5 G phone today but at least T-Mobile has 5G service in my area and is the only network that had 200 million people with 5G coverage. T-Mobile has almost nationwide 5G coverage and AT&T and Verizon are subpar with their 5G that is only connecting with 6% of their customers even where they claim they have 5G service.
    I don't know what the heck is going on with cell service in central/western Florida, but it basically all sucks. You'd think it would be better for a relatively flat area. I have AT&T and my friend has Verizon, both were sucking pondwater most of the time we were down there. My Mint subscription ran out, so I couldn't test T-Mobile speed wise, but T-Mobile seemed to have less coverage than AT&T and Verizon, although bars on AT&T weren't terribly indicative of great service. At one point around Homosassa Springs and Crystal River I was down to 0.2mbps and MMS was broken. At Cedar Key, AT&T flaked out while Verizon hung on to a few mbps and one or two bars, even though they were on the the same tower. In Ocala, AT&T was losing service in a Publix, although I'm not sure if anything else worked properly either.

    Florida seems to be another Iowa: nothing works right down there. Must be the swamps or the gators or something. Orlando/Tampa/St. Pete were fine, but they're probably fine on any carrier. I really don't know why AT&T can't get it right down there. It seems that you can build just about whatever you want wherever you want, and it's mostly flat, so you'd think it would be a slam dunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    At least 5G works on T-Mobile today
    Once again when the 5G is not better than 4G what does it matter. Fun Fact: If T-Mobile had kept all the 600 MHz on 4G that would be MUCH faster than what they are running on 5G. 15 MHz 4G > 10 MHz 5G.

    and now that the Sprint deal has closed then T-Mobile will have the spectrum bandwidth to have faster 5G than LTE.
    We'll see how fast T-Mobile will roll that out. I suspect that will take longer than them rolling out 5G over 600 MHz

    MmWave is never going to work alone. Even if they add a small cell every couple of hundred feet it will be blocked by tree and building and car and bus in the nation. Sorry it is raining so no mmWave for you today. Verizon network has only 6% coverage where they have mmWave 5G today. Really how does Verizon improve that 6% coverage would be to put in 18 more small cells inside the same 200 to 300 feet that covers the same amount of customers as the one small cell that cant connect since a tree is between the customers and the transmitter. Who cares about mmWave since its only useful function is to run static Speedtests. MmWave is almost useless in the real world wit the way customers use their phones.

    Got to love despite Verizon has stated they plan on using low, mid high band an mmwave for 5G you somehow still want to quote misinformation about Verizon's 5G plans. Deliberate lies kind makes any other points you have questionable. Why do you feel the need to lie?

    T-Mobile has a near term solution with the 2.5Ghz spectrum and DSS. DSS wont support mmWave and Low band for years.
    T-Mobile has stated it's not going use DSS very much. And DSS is going to be rolled out by the end of the year despite the lies spread by T-Mobile. Once again you can make point without needing to lie. The fact you feel you have to lie means maybe your not so confident in your points

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    Hey I have a question. I have the unlocked version of the Galaxy s20 5G. Would my phone work with Verizon 5G

    Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

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    I live in Miami close to Miami Beach. AT&T works great in my area...

    Sent from my LM-V600 using HoFo mobile app
    Last edited by Miami786FL; 04-08-2020 at 07:30 AM.

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    Well, starting next year Verizon will have the CDMA sunset behind them. And can just work on improving their network and plans. And maybe stop distracting themselves with strange aquisitions.
    iPhone 11 is my current primary phone. But I have more phones than lines. Back to only Prepaid with the changes in the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dandn1321 View Post
    Hey I have a question. I have the unlocked version of the Galaxy s20 5G. Would my phone work with Verizon 5G
    The Galaxy S20 does not have mm-wave 5G, and that is mostly what Verizon has in place now. The S20+ and Ultra do have mm-wave 5G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loboheeler View Post
    The Galaxy S20 does not have mm-wave 5G, and that is mostly what Verizon has in place now. The S20+ and Ultra do have mm-wave 5G.
    Unfortunately only one 2020 5G phone will support carrier aggregation across all bands. Like buying a cpu for gaming that can't be overclocked.

    The OnePlus 8 Lite (expected price $430) which will use a mediatek chipset and 5G modem that supports CA. Mediatek is about a year ahead of Qualcomm in this regard anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    It's great to see the analysts openly talking about how T-Mobile will be a stronger competitor now:

    "But for the next few years, New T-Mobile really will be a more formidable competitor than either T-Mobile or Sprint would have been on their own, wrote Moffett. "

    "Its not great news for Verizon, given that it removes Sprint and Dishs spectrum as an alternative, created a new competitor in Dish, and has empowered T-Mobile with the tools to deliver a superior network experience to consumers, wrote LightShed."

    "Johnathan Chaplin wrote, T-Mobile will be far more disruptive once they have access to Sprints spectrum than they have been until now."

    "Moffett meanwhile wrote that T-Mobile taking over Sprints key 2.5 GHz mid-band holdings, will allow the New T-Mobile to mount the most credible threat either Verizons or AT&Ts network supremacy has every faced.""


    Exactly what I've been saying the whole time. It's also why I suspect Verizon and AT&T were working madly behind the scenes to torpedo this deal. I also suspect they were urging the AG's to fight this too as a last chance effort to stop it. They failed, and now the new T-Mobile is going to come charging hard at them. It will be a great thing to witness.
    Verizon has a vast trove of assets. They can pair, offer discounts and make those packages attractive to new customers and keep their current customers. I know Verizon will be fine. Do not underestimate the telecommunications giant. They can deliver. They do it year after year. Rumours of their demise is highly exaggerated.

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    Verizon pegged as: loser, in the T-Mobile/Sprint deal

    You know how Verizon used to make commercials making fun of T-Mobiles LTE coverage? For the better part of the last two decades they pushed their larger 2G and 3G networks with that big red map and they did the same thing with Band 13 LTE.

    And lets be honest here; it was true and from a marketing perspective they had every grandma in a wheelchair thinking they needed all that coverage in all the states they never even plan to go to in the first place.

    Now T-Mobile has the opportunity to drive home the point that no other carrier matches their NR coverage. Nobody. And everyone can come in and say that 5G coverage isnt real unless its mmWave or because its not lit up in BFE. But it were honest with ourselves it doesnt change the facts.

    The low-band, lower capacity coverage layer will allow T-Mobile to offer cutting edge 5G services nationwide before its competitors and for them its a competitive edge thats theirs to lose.


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    The Internet wasnt meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so its insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead its a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text. John Legere 1/5/2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameny5 View Post
    Verizon has a vast trove of assets. They can pair, offer discounts and make those packages attractive to new customers and keep their current customers. I know Verizon will be fine. Do not underestimate the telecommunications giant. They can deliver. They do it year after year. Rumours of their demise is highly exaggerated.
    Funny how the Verizon lovers have to defend their carrier in a T-Mobile thread. What are you afraid about? The possibility that T-Mobile can actually surpass Verizon for the number one spot?

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