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Thread: Judge approves $26 billion merger of T-Mobile and Sprint

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    I hope they get rid of the DISH name, as it always connotes a birdbath on the roof with a signal that goes away whenever it rains.
    That's exactly what happens with satellite service for TV or Internet. Lots around here have to use it because of no broadcast TV or cable service. It's expensive and crummy performing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I remember T-Mobile wanted language included that prevented dish from just selling off their assets for a certain time period, they were worried dish would flip their spectrum to someone like Comcast right away. T-Mobile was fine setting up a competitor, they just didn’t want one that could actually become competitive lol. I’m not sure if they were able to get that included or not though.
    They were concerned about other investors in Dish, but I didn't think T-Mobile was wanting restrictions on selling assets. So I searched for what the requested restrictions were and this article seemed to summarize them:

    "T-Mobile parent company Deutsche Telekom wants to limit strategic investors in Dish to 5 percent, and to limit Dish’s spectrum capacity to 12.5 percent. "

    https://www.pymnts.com/news/partners...t-merger-dish/

    I don't think DT got their request. The article goes onto say:

    "The DoJ wants Deutsche Telekom to give Dish unlimited access to its network, according to Reuters. "

    So I think the DOJ got DT to concede on this point. So in theory an investor could come in and help Boost sell the heck out of T-Mobile's network. And T-Mobile would have to provide the service until the end of the agreement.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post

    Tmobile won because despite all that new debt, it is easily covered by synergies created and this gives them the horsepower to not just compete with AT&T and Verizon but to outclass them completely. Tmobile will have the lowest costs going forward by far. They can drop prices AND make more money.
    What?

    How will T-Mobile have the "lowest costs going forward"? They have no network to speak of outside of rural and suburban areas. They they acquired Sprint, who also has no network in all the same places T-Mobile doesn't. Sure, T-Mo just got a metric crapton of nationwide spectrum from Sprint, but Sprint never built it out, so now T-Mo has to go out and build the actual infrastructure, whereas Verizon and AT&T just have to go out and slap a 5G overlay on top of their fully functional existing networks. T-Mo realistically has the highest costs ahead of them vs. the rest of the big three. (Not that this is a problem for them- it will certainly pay off down the road.)

    Unless, of course, T-Mo has no intention of making good on their rural coverage promises to regulators and just intends to greatly increase capacity in their existing network of second-tier coverage. In that case, yes, they'll have the lowest costs going forward, and they can continue to keep a lot of folks very happy- the same types of folks who currently use T-Mo and Sprint today, and accept the smaller coverage footprint (vs. AT&T and VZW) because it adequately suits their needs.


    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Without question this is the single most important event in wireless history outside of the birth of wireless.
    A little hyperbolic, don't you think? What do you think this merger has actually done for you?

    Wireless technology has settled into the same "good enough" territory that PCs and TVs went through. What will you be able to do in a year from now on a phone that you can't do today? Or couldn't do a year ago?

    "The most important event in wireless history outside the birth of wireless" is, without question, the introduction of the iPhone (and I say this as a long-time Apple hater!) While the iPhone did nothing that other Palm, Blackberry, or Windows-based smartphones of the time couldn't already do (in fact iPhones at the time did considerably less!), they were smartphones that any idiot could use, and, thanks to the relatively inexpensive mandatory data plan (you couldn't buy an iPhone in the US without a $20/month unlimited data plan from AT&T) they were the proof of concept that "everyone" needed to be connected ubiquitously. The era of syncing mobile devices with PCs each morning (yeah, that used to be a thing!) or only being connected intermittently whenever WiFi was available was over forever.

    Smartphones, and constant connectivity, were the biggest thing to happen to wireless since wireless. Ubiquitous access to information, and GPS/location based services was a game changer. The introduction of 3G was also huge, because it was finally fast enough to completely untether our mobile devices from PCs by letting us stream and/or download music, video and apps on the go vs. finding WiFi or syncing it from a computer first.

    Everything else, including 4G (and now 5G) are just incremental improvements to stuff that was already good enough for day to day use. This merger, as good as it might be for T-Mobile, Sprint, and their shareholders, will probably mean comparitively little to mobile phone users in their day to day lives.





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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    What?

    How will T-Mobile have the "lowest costs going forward"? They have no network to speak of outside of rural and suburban areas. They they acquired Sprint, who also has no network in all the same places T-Mobile doesn't. Sure, T-Mo just got a metric crapton of nationwide spectrum from Sprint, but Sprint never built it out, so now T-Mo has to go out and build the actual infrastructure, whereas Verizon and AT&T just have to go out and slap a 5G overlay on top of their fully functional existing networks.
    The metric ton of Sprint spectrum is the B41 and that's not that useful in rural areas anyway. That spectrum will be mainly used in populated areas and can provide wireless broadband as well as video service.

    The plan for less populated areas has always been to use 600 spectrum which T-Mobile already owned and has already been deploying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    The metric ton of Sprint spectrum is the B41 and that's not that useful in rural areas anyway. That spectrum will be mainly used in populated areas and can provide wireless broadband as well as video service.

    The plan for less populated areas has always been to use 600 spectrum which T-Mobile already owned and has already been deploying.
    I will attest to the relative usefulness of low frequency bands in outlying areas. In my hilly and forested area TMO uses B4 and not B12, and the signal is the worst of all carriers outside of town. Not sure if they use B71, as my phone did not have it. Verizon uses both low and higher frequencies, and the higher ones are inferior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    How much is the penalty if Dish doesn't build out?
    Off the top of my head, I think it was $10 Billion.



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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    ..... They have no network to speak of outside of rural and suburban areas.....
    Did you mean "outside of urban and suburban areas"? No offence but hat you wrote just doesn't make sense. Not trying to be a pedant. (I just confused bands 26 and 41.) Just trying to understand what you're saying.
    They they acquired Sprint, who also has no network in all the same places T-Mobile doesn't. Sure, T-Mo just got a metric crapton of nationwide spectrum from Sprint, but Sprint never built it out, so now T-Mo has to go out and build the actual infrastructure, ......
    T-Mobile has been installing a lot of rural coverage. Sometimes the progress does seem glacial. It must not be easy to satisfy everyone and do it on a budget. They are currently beginning to overlay band 71 service in my market but the progress is maddeningly slow.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    The metric ton of Sprint spectrum is the B41 and that's not that useful in rural areas anyway. That spectrum will be mainly used in populated areas and can provide wireless broadband as well as video service.

    The plan for less populated areas has always been to use 600 spectrum which T-Mobile already owned and has already been deploying.
    B41 is useful in towns and cities, rural or otherwise, but yeah, 600MHz will cover the wife open spaces.

    That sidesteps the point. If T-Mo expects to be a competitive top 3 carrier they need to offer similar coverage to the big 2, which will require a (very) costly build out.

    But, as you say, Sprint's spectrum isn't really necessary for rural coverage, and T-Mo has been slowly extending their coverage outside their usual urban/suburban strongholds even prior to the merger.

    Gee, it's almost as if they didn't need the merger to compete after all...



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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Did you mean "outside of urban and suburban areas"? No offence but hat you wrote just doesn't make sense. Not trying to be a pedant. (I just confused bands 26 and 41.) Just trying to understand what you're saying..

    Yep. Too many words banging around my too small of a noggin! I meant urban and suburban.


    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    T-Mobile has been installing a lot of rural coverage. Sometimes the progress does seem glacial. It must not be easy to satisfy everyone and do it on a budget. They are currently beginning to overlay band 71 service in my market but the progress is maddeningly slow.
    True. I was just taking issue with the idea that because a combined T-Mo/Sprint suddenly has achieved parity with AT&T and Verizon in their spectrum holdings or number of customers, they are now in an equal or better position to their rivals. They still lag behind in coverage, and that takes time and money to play catch up. They can certainly get there if they choose, but the idea that they'll have the "lowest costs" going forward is ludicrous. Parity will be expensive.



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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I remember T-Mobile wanted language included that prevented dish from just selling off their assets for a certain time period, they were worried dish would flip their spectrum to someone like Comcast right away. T-Mobile was fine setting up a competitor, they just didn’t want one that could actually become competitive lol. I’m not sure if they were able to get that included or not though. I agree, the penalty really isn’t a huge deal, heck he could sell off the assets and just pay off the penalty if he wanted to. I have little faith in dish ever actually being more than a mvno as well, but, you raised valid points about Charlie, and he may surprise everyone.
    I was wondering if they would do that with some of their “older” spectrum they already had. I know some of it probably still has penalties if they sell it off early but I’m sure the penalty will be small compared to a spectrum sale.

    It makes sense to me. They probably don’t have that much free capital left after the 5 Billion dollar purchase so selling off some of the older spectrum sounds like an easy way to get cash to build out the network.

    At one point I remember reading that Dish’s spectrum holdings was worth like 30 billion or something. I imagine at one point that was correct but now that c-Band and CBRS are coming into play I’m sure that value will drop. C-Band auction alone is some 280 MHz that will be available and an additional 70 MHz of CBRS as well.

    T-Mobile won’t need much with the spectrum they got in the acquisition. AT&T also has a good amount of sub 6 MHz spectrum. Verizon is the one who needs it the most (aside from local carriers that may want to get into the WISP game). I’m sure the amount Verizon is willing to pay is dropping every day they get closer to the other spectrum auctions.


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    I think what's overlooked also, is honestly the deal TMobile is getting with Sprint. If the current price holds, they are paying 26b for Sprint. To put that in comparison, Verizon paid 28b for alltel. Alltel came with only 13m customers, far less spectrum, and almost 25b in debt when Verizon bought them. Then Verizon was forced to divest over 100 markets to complete the deal. In the assets alone, TMobile got a steal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInPa View Post
    I was wondering if they would do that with some of their “older” spectrum they already had. I know some of it probably still has penalties if they sell it off early but I’m sure the penalty will be small compared to a spectrum sale.

    It makes sense to me. They probably don’t have that much free capital left after the 5 Billion dollar purchase so selling off some of the older spectrum sounds like an easy way to get cash to build out the network.

    At one point I remember reading that Dish’s spectrum holdings was worth like 30 billion or something. I imagine at one point that was correct but now that c-Band and CBRS are coming into play I’m sure that value will drop. C-Band auction alone is some 280 MHz that will be available and an additional 70 MHz of CBRS as well.

    T-Mobile won’t need much with the spectrum they got in the acquisition. AT&T also has a good amount of sub 6 MHz spectrum. Verizon is the one who needs it the most (aside from local carriers that may want to get into the WISP game). I’m sure the amount Verizon is willing to pay is dropping every day they get closer to the other spectrum auctions.


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    Dish has to borrow to complete the purchase of boost, then they have to borrow to build out the network. This is also at a time when their core business is declining. I know Charlie says he may have a surprise investor, but who? I can't see it being Google as they are now having their own anti trust issues with the DOJ, Amazon is getting close to having those same issues, I can't see big cable just being a partner with dish, I would think they'd rather just buy out dish wireless entirely. Maybe a smaller cable player? This is what gives me pause as to whether or not dish becomes anything more than a mvno. Charlie may want to be more, but can he? He may see selling off or leasing out as his better option.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post

    How will T-Mobile have the "lowest costs going forward"?
    https://www.fiercewireless.com/opera...market-analyst

    The analysts say the deal will give T-Mobile by far the lowest unit cost in the industry; it could sell capacity at a healthy profit at a price that would be well below AT&T and Verizon’s cost.
    You're right I should have said they will have the lowest costs 'by far going forward'.


    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    "The most important event in wireless history outside the birth of wireless" is, without question, the introduction of the iPhone (and I say this as a long-time Apple hater!)
    As you said smartphones already existed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    Dish has to borrow to complete the purchase of boost, then they have to borrow to build out the network. This is also at a time when their core business is declining. I know Charlie says he may have a surprise investor, but who? I can't see it being Google as they are now having their own anti trust issues with the DOJ, Amazon is getting close to having those same issues, I can't see big cable just being a partner with dish, I would think they'd rather just buy out dish wireless entirely. Maybe a smaller cable player? This is what gives me pause as to whether or not dish becomes anything more than a mvno. Charlie may want to be more, but can he? He may see selling off or leasing out as his better option.
    Softbank is backing Dish's loans to purchase Boost (I already posted that).

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Softbank is backing Dish's loans to purchase Boost (I already posted that).
    Yea, and they testified they already have lenders in place for the initial 10b for the network buildout. This is still borrowing and raising your total debt load that does need to be paid. It’s not as if dish is in amazing financial shape right now. I have doubts they ever get it done. Maybe Charlie does have some secret big money investor, as a stand-alone though, I don’t see them ever doing it.

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