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Thread: RootMetrics: Verizon's 4G Is Faster Than T-Mobile's 5G

  1. #46
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    Should Verizon be concerned now that T-Mobile has the go ahead to merge with sprint. Both in terms of 4G and 5G. I recently left T-Mobile for Verizon. Hope I don’t regret the switch now that the merger has been approved.


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    T-Mobile will be in good shape overall but I think we will have 3 carriers that will match each other in coverage capacity and price over time. For 5g I like T-Mobile spectrum position the best if I had to choose 1

    I'm guessing tmobile will stay slightly cheaper than the others but not a big difference
    Quote Originally Posted by obeythelaw View Post
    Should Verizon be concerned now that T-Mobile has the go ahead to merge with sprint. Both in terms of 4G and 5G. I recently left T-Mobile for Verizon. Hope I don’t regret the switch now that the merger has been approved.


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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyjones View Post
    T-Mobile will be in good shape overall but I think we will have 3 carriers that will match each other in coverage capacity and price over time. For 5g I like T-Mobile spectrum position the best if I had to choose 1

    I'm guessing tmobile will stay slightly cheaper than the others but not a big difference
    Here’s my take. Either the new T-Mobile gets to the same coverage experience as Verizon or it doesn’t. If it does, it can’t keep the pricing where it is now. Otherwise, it would force Verizon to admit that T-Mobile is now a competitor on the same level as Verizon. And that would mean Verizon would have to reduce its prices a bit or add some incentives to beat T-Mobile. I’ll be honest, if T-Mobile gains a competitive coverage advantage and keeps pricing lower than Verizon then I would go back to T-Mobile.


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    Quote Originally Posted by obeythelaw View Post
    Here’s my take. Either the new T-Mobile gets to the same coverage experience as Verizon or it doesn’t. If it does, it can’t keep the pricing where it is now. Otherwise, it would force Verizon to admit that T-Mobile is now a competitor on the same level as Verizon. And that would mean Verizon would have to reduce its prices a bit or add some incentives to beat T-Mobile. I’ll be honest, if T-Mobile gains a competitive coverage advantage and keeps pricing lower than Verizon then I would go back to T-Mobile. ....
    Interesting and valid thought. T-Mobile has cut costs in many ways, including 1) more internet sales, fewer corporate stores 2) alternative (perhaps less-robust) backhaul providers and 3) more battery back-up and fewer generators at cell sites. None of these degrade coverage under normal circumstances but can cause issues when problems occur. The question is if customers recognize these "intangibles" and will be willing to pay more for them, once coverage levels out?
    Donald Newcomb

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    Should Verizon be concerned now that T-Mobile has the go ahead to merge with sprint. Both in terms of 4G and 5G. I recently left T-Mobile for Verizon. Hope I don’t regret the switch now that the merger has been approved.
    Should VZW be concerned? Yeah, T-Mo's getting a bunch of 2.5ghz spectrum adding capacity and keeping those in-town speeds nice and high. VZW has not historically had to worry about T-Mo competing rurally due to the higher costs of running a 1900 network dense enough to get decent coverage. But, T-Mo's gotten low band the last few years and aggressively rolled it out, which has nothing to do with Sprint merger but still should worry them.

    That said, VZW's done pretty well in even spectrum-strapped markets by installing small cells like crazy. Rurally you of course have that one or two cell sites covering a whole county, T-Mo's low band helps coverage in these areas but neither T-Mo or VZW have some large amount of low band, you'll only get so much speed when you're outside the coverage area of the faster bands.

    Should you regret switching? I would look at it this way; if T-Mo rolls out crazy fast 2.5ghz 5G, and the coverage from 600mhz 5G, almost any phone you got now won't actually support them. If you change your mind and switch back in a year or two, the coverage will be more built out, and T-Mo will probably throw in a discounted phone that supports those bands

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    Quote Originally Posted by obeythelaw View Post
    Should Verizon be concerned now that T-Mobile has the go ahead to merge with sprint. Both in terms of 4G and 5G. I recently left T-Mobile for Verizon. Hope I don’t regret the switch now that the merger has been approved.
    They have a ton of mid-band spectrum, but it's going to take 2-3 years just to combine the networks that they already have, much less make any meaningful expansions in coverage. And AT&T is already doing massive coverage expansions for FirstNet, so in 2-3 years, T-Mobile will just have that much more of an uphill battle. If they just use T-Mobile's existing network in rural/exurban areas, then Verizon and AT&T have nothing to worry about.

    From a business perspective, there is a lot more money to be made selling home internet via n41 5G than there is grinding out rural markets that T-Mobile and Sprint have done OK without covering as it stands today.

    Verizon is all-in on the small cell strategy, because they backed themselves into a corner, and that was the only way out. I don't see that changing, and I think that will give them a leg up in most urban/suburban markets for a long time to come, especially when CBRS comes online.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    VZW has not historically had to worry about T-Mo competing rurally due to the higher costs of running a 1900 network dense enough to get decent coverage. But, T-Mo's gotten low band the last few years and aggressively rolled it out, which has nothing to do with Sprint merger but still should worry them.
    Have you actually used T-Mobile's rural coverage? It's just enough to crayon in the map. It's like swiss cheese. AT&T and/or Verizon, depending on the market still have far better rural coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    They have a ton of mid-band spectrum, but it's going to take 2-3 years just to combine the networks that they already have, much less make any meaningful expansions in coverage. And AT&T is already doing massive coverage expansions for FirstNet, so in 2-3 years, T-Mobile will just have that much more of an uphill battle. If they just use T-Mobile's existing network in rural/exurban areas, then Verizon and AT&T have nothing to worry about.

    From a business perspective, there is a lot more money to be made selling home internet via n41 5G than there is grinding out rural markets that T-Mobile and Sprint have done OK without covering as it stands today.

    Verizon is all-in on the small cell strategy, because they backed themselves into a corner, and that was the only way out. I don't see that changing, and I think that will give them a leg up in most urban/suburban markets for a long time to come, especially when CBRS comes online.



    Have you actually used T-Mobile's rural coverage? It's just enough to crayon in the map. It's like swiss cheese. AT&T and/or Verizon, depending on the market still have far better rural coverage.
    For the record T-Mobile can't deploy 600 MHz just quite yet. There are still areas that are using it for TV. I will say that T-Mobile should have kept 600 MHz 4G for the time being. Would have definitely have had an advantage over Verizon in many areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    For the record T-Mobile can't deploy 600 MHz just quite yet. There are still areas that are using it for TV. I will say that T-Mobile should have kept 600 MHz 4G for the time being. Would have definitely have had an advantage over Verizon in many areas.
    TV stations are repacking faster than T-Mobile is able to deploy 600 MHz, anyway. The band was cleared around here in September and T-Mobile has just deployed 3 band-71 sites in the neighboring county. None in the other 5 counties in the cleared area. CSpire has the 700A license, so this should be a relatively high-priority area, as 600 is their only low-band here.

    I agree about keeping 600 LTE but I'm sure there was a big impetus to sell that "nationwide" 5G service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    TV stations are repacking faster than T-Mobile is able to deploy 600 MHz, anyway. The band was cleared around here in September and T-Mobile has just deployed 3 band-71 sites in the neighboring county. None in the other 5 counties in the cleared area. CSpire has the 700A license, so this should be a relatively high-priority area, as 600 is their only low-band here.

    I agree about keeping 600 LTE but I'm sure there was a big impetus to sell that "nationwide" 5G service.
    They only deployed 5G because they thought it would help with the trial. As far as 600 MHz deployment if you would have told me before the 600 MHz auction began that by early 2020 that ANYONE would have even half the population covered I would have been shocked. Honestly I though it would take until at least mid 2021 and perhaps as late 2022/early 2023 before everyone was covered

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    Even without sprint T-Mobile can still be a threat to Verizon. Nationwide low band is a game changer for coverage parity.

    T-Mobile also has some mm wave for those burst speeds in certain high populated areas. They aren't as built out yet but tmobile steadily builds out and even now I wouldn't call T-Mobile a no threat by any means

    You don't have to be exactly equal to be a threat
    Last edited by anthonyjones; 02-20-2020 at 09:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyjones View Post
    Even without sprint T-Mobile can still be a threat to Verizon. Nationwide low band is a game changer for coverage parity.
    It WOULD have been if they hadn't decided t dedicate most of it for 5G. Sorry but Verizon 10X10 band 13 trumps T-Mobile's 5X5 of band 71. If they had kept it 10X10, 15X15 and 20X20 yes they'd have huge advantage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    It WOULD have been if they hadn't decided t dedicate most of it for 5G. Sorry but Verizon 10X10 band 13 trumps T-Mobile's 5X5 of band 71. If they had kept it 10X10, 15X15 and 20X20 yes they'd have huge advantage
    Does anyone actually ever get to use band 13 though? My phone will do ANYTHING to stay off band 13 if at all possible, preferring 1 bar of band 4 vs. full bars of band 13.

    This has been the case for years for me. Even to the extent that I've had numerous phones that wouldn't connect to the LTE Network Extender back when I used it (it uses band 13 by default) and would prefer 1-2 bars of band 4 from the macro tower instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
    Does anyone actually ever get to use band 13 though? My phone will do ANYTHING to stay off band 13 if at all possible, preferring 1 bar of band 4 vs. full bars of band 13.

    This has been the case for years for me. Even to the extent that I've had numerous phones that wouldn't connect to the LTE Network Extender back when I used it (it uses band 13 by default) and would prefer 1-2 bars of band 4 from the macro tower instead.
    Your phone is not just using band 4. There is thing called carrier aggregation and I'm pretty sure your phone is using band 4 AND 13 and perhaps band 2 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
    Does anyone actually ever get to use band 13 though? My phone will do ANYTHING to stay off band 13 if at all possible, preferring 1 bar of band 4 vs. full bars of band 13.

    This has been the case for years for me. Even to the extent that I've had numerous phones that wouldn't connect to the LTE Network Extender back when I used it (it uses band 13 by default) and would prefer 1-2 bars of band 4 from the macro tower instead.
    I get Vz band 13 most of the time at home. I am out on the rural fringe of suburbia and none of the higher frequencies make it out here and into the house. That's the way the band allocation algorithm works. They tend to reserve the low frequency bands with more limited bandwidth to devices that can't use anything else. Conversely, if you are in an area where the higher frequency bands can give some service, they will switch you to them even though your speed could be better on band 13. Doing so increases their coverage range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    For the record T-Mobile can't deploy 600 MHz just quite yet. There are still areas that are using it for TV. I will say that T-Mobile should have kept 600 MHz 4G for the time being. Would have definitely have had an advantage over Verizon in many areas.
    Correct on the first two points, I'm not sure about an advantage over Verizon. Since B71 and B13 are almost identical in propagation, T-Mobile would have had to have a higher tower density, they currently have a lower density in most rural areas.

    T-Mobile has a LONG way to go before they are any threat to Verizon or AT&T.

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