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Thread: Band 5 for LTE usage??

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by i0wnj00 View Post
    I don't see much of B5 LTE either.
    I thought there was B5 LTE at my office and home (up in SoCal) but I haven't seen it lately.
    I was testing out a hotspot at work and didn't see B5 LTE at all, only B12 when I could have sworn that I had seen it before.
    It's probably offline now awaiting n5 to be turned up. It disappeared completely here a month or so before they fired up 5G.

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    If and when ATT adds DSS to the network I guess it wont matter then. Speaking of DSS, is that something that will be handled on the network side or will we new devices with that capability? Would it just share between all bands that are available or only certain bands can be shared? (Sorry guys I'm be inquisitive b/c I was really comfortable talking about 2G and 3G, but 4G and 5G I'm behind in.) I search the internet but sometimes its difficult to find the answers to specific questions.

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  3. #18
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    Re: bands, on VZW I've seen (in rough order of what I've seen) band 13, band 4, band 2, band 5. (AT&T has band 12 licenses rather than band 13 for 700mhz service.) I have not seen band 5 often at all either. Most likely (for both AT&T and VZW) the band 5 is like 5mhz for now, VZW's still running 1x and 3G down there and AT&T is probably running 3G there too.

    If and when ATT adds DSS to the network I guess it wont matter then. Speaking of DSS, is that something that will be handled on the network side or will we new devices with that capability? Would it just share between all bands that are available or only certain bands can be shared? (Sorry guys I'm be inquisitive b/c I was really comfortable talking about 2G and 3G, but 4G and 5G I'm behind in.) I search the internet but sometimes its difficult to find the answers to specific questions.
    Honestly current 5G deployments a bit of a two-pronged pissing contest (mmwave 5G and the low-band 5G), for the low-band 5G AT&T, VZW, and T-Mo are setting aside some small slice for 5G just to get it running as fast as possible. Some 5mhz or so of 5G is not that exciting. DSS makes 5G exciting though

    DSS (Dynamic Spectrum Sharing) lets a site switch between 4G and 5G. The existing 5G service is "non-standalone", the device must be connected to a 4G channel as well at least for the control channel (and on most if not all current 5G devices the uploads are also over 4G for now.) 4G divides the channel into "resource blocks", 180khz channels for 0.5ms of time. 5G has a few possible resource block sizes but 180khz for 0.5ms is one of them. Some clever put these two things together and realized a channel could simply run the 4G control channel existing 5G phones need anyway, and run 4G resource blocks to 4G devices and 5G resource blocks to 5G devices, no fuss no muss.

    This is entirely a network-side change. 4G phone should not care what's going on in resource blocks they aren't assigned, so 4G devices won't need any changes. 5G phones use a 4G-style control channel anyway, and won't care what's going on in other resource blocks either. I don't know if the existing 5G phones that support like 1-2 5G bands are wired up to use the other bands via firmware update or not, but I'm sure all newer 5G phones will support additional bands.

    I assume in the long term DSS would be used on all current 4G bands. In the near term, from what I read in T-Mo forum the cell site hardware made within the last like 2-3 years should be software upgradeable to DSS. In near term, as a practical matter, I would expect band 4/66 and 2 to get DSS first (small cells tend to be newer, so many would be new enough to receive a DSS update), in AT&T's case perhaps band 5 (if they already have 5G hardware, flip the channel into a DSS channel). Band 13/12 sites can be up to 10 years old, I wouldn't be surprised for quite a few of these sites to have >3 year old hardware, sites requiring actual hardware replacement would get DSS last.

    it's super-slick. No need to shuffle spectrum between 4G and 5G manually, no need to "turn down" or retire 4G down the road (years from now, keeping a nearly-empty 5mhz 4G channel could be awkward, but running the occasional 0.5ms 4G timeslice for them is no big deal.)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentrix View Post
    It's all over the place here in South Florida as well.
    Find myself on it more than any other band... followed by 2, 30, and occasionally 14.
    Yeah I would say I was probably on it 90% of the time when I was down there. On occasion my phone would switch to band 30.
    Hartford, CT Area

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Re: bands, on VZW I've seen (in rough order of what I've seen) band 13, band 4, band 2, band 5. (AT&T has band 12 licenses rather than band 13 for 700mhz service.) I have not seen band 5 often at all either. Most likely (for both AT&T and VZW) the band 5 is like 5mhz for now, VZW's still running 1x and 3G down there and AT&T is probably running 3G there too.


    Honestly current 5G deployments a bit of a two-pronged pissing contest (mmwave 5G and the low-band 5G), for the low-band 5G AT&T, VZW, and T-Mo are setting aside some small slice for 5G just to get it running as fast as possible. Some 5mhz or so of 5G is not that exciting. DSS makes 5G exciting though

    DSS (Dynamic Spectrum Sharing) lets a site switch between 4G and 5G. The existing 5G service is "non-standalone", the device must be connected to a 4G channel as well at least for the control channel (and on most if not all current 5G devices the uploads are also over 4G for now.) 4G divides the channel into "resource blocks", 180khz channels for 0.5ms of time. 5G has a few possible resource block sizes but 180khz for 0.5ms is one of them. Some clever put these two things together and realized a channel could simply run the 4G control channel existing 5G phones need anyway, and run 4G resource blocks to 4G devices and 5G resource blocks to 5G devices, no fuss no muss.

    This is entirely a network-side change. 4G phone should not care what's going on in resource blocks they aren't assigned, so 4G devices won't need any changes. 5G phones use a 4G-style control channel anyway, and won't care what's going on in other resource blocks either. I don't know if the existing 5G phones that support like 1-2 5G bands are wired up to use the other bands via firmware update or not, but I'm sure all newer 5G phones will support additional bands.

    I assume in the long term DSS would be used on all current 4G bands. In the near term, from what I read in T-Mo forum the cell site hardware made within the last like 2-3 years should be software upgradeable to DSS. In near term, as a practical matter, I would expect band 4/66 and 2 to get DSS first (small cells tend to be newer, so many would be new enough to receive a DSS update), in AT&T's case perhaps band 5 (if they already have 5G hardware, flip the channel into a DSS channel). Band 13/12 sites can be up to 10 years old, I wouldn't be surprised for quite a few of these sites to have >3 year old hardware, sites requiring actual hardware replacement would get DSS last.

    it's super-slick. No need to shuffle spectrum between 4G and 5G manually, no need to "turn down" or retire 4G down the road (years from now, keeping a nearly-empty 5mhz 4G channel could be awkward, but running the occasional 0.5ms 4G timeslice for them is no big deal.)
    Great info hwertz, appreciate the info in understandable language. This may be a dumb question but with DSS and it being on the network side of things, would this mean 4G devices could share mmWave with 5G devices? Or this only just allows 5G devices to share the lower band with 4G devices?

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Re: bands, on VZW I've seen (in rough order of what I've seen) band 13, band 4, band 2, band 5. (AT&T has band 12 licenses rather than band 13 for 700mhz service.) I have not seen band 5 often at all either. Most likely (for both AT&T and VZW) the band 5 is like 5mhz for now, VZW's still running 1x and 3G down there and AT&T is probably running 3G there too.


    Honestly current 5G deployments a bit of a two-pronged pissing contest (mmwave 5G and the low-band 5G), for the low-band 5G AT&T, VZW, and T-Mo are setting aside some small slice for 5G just to get it running as fast as possible. Some 5mhz or so of 5G is not that exciting. DSS makes 5G exciting though

    DSS (Dynamic Spectrum Sharing) lets a site switch between 4G and 5G. The existing 5G service is "non-standalone", the device must be connected to a 4G channel as well at least for the control channel (and on most if not all current 5G devices the uploads are also over 4G for now.) 4G divides the channel into "resource blocks", 180khz channels for 0.5ms of time. 5G has a few possible resource block sizes but 180khz for 0.5ms is one of them. Some clever put these two things together and realized a channel could simply run the 4G control channel existing 5G phones need anyway, and run 4G resource blocks to 4G devices and 5G resource blocks to 5G devices, no fuss no muss.

    This is entirely a network-side change. 4G phone should not care what's going on in resource blocks they aren't assigned, so 4G devices won't need any changes. 5G phones use a 4G-style control channel anyway, and won't care what's going on in other resource blocks either. I don't know if the existing 5G phones that support like 1-2 5G bands are wired up to use the other bands via firmware update or not, but I'm sure all newer 5G phones will support additional bands.

    I assume in the long term DSS would be used on all current 4G bands. In the near term, from what I read in T-Mo forum the cell site hardware made within the last like 2-3 years should be software upgradeable to DSS. In near term, as a practical matter, I would expect band 4/66 and 2 to get DSS first (small cells tend to be newer, so many would be new enough to receive a DSS update), in AT&T's case perhaps band 5 (if they already have 5G hardware, flip the channel into a DSS channel). Band 13/12 sites can be up to 10 years old, I wouldn't be surprised for quite a few of these sites to have >3 year old hardware, sites requiring actual hardware replacement would get DSS last.

    it's super-slick. No need to shuffle spectrum between 4G and 5G manually, no need to "turn down" or retire 4G down the road (years from now, keeping a nearly-empty 5mhz 4G channel could be awkward, but running the occasional 0.5ms 4G timeslice for them is no big deal.)
    Nice write up.
    Fortunately in Ts case, they are upgrading every site with band 14 and all other hardware as well. Im under the assumption all the upgraded sites, being 5GNR ready, will also be DSS enabled as well. It'd be a real bummer if there sites had to be upgraded again, but I don't see that being the case as it should all be on the software end.

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  7. #22
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    The 4G phone will not be able to use mmwave, just bands it can already use. So it'd be just for letting 5G devices use 4G bands. Beats having to shut off a slice at a time of 4G to run 5G full-time in it (and, after all, these 5G devices will still be using the spectrum ~20-30% more efficiently than they would be running 4G, so it shouldn't hurt anything for 4G users.)

    Fortunately in Ts case, they are upgrading every site with band 14 and all other hardware as well.
    You're right, I didn't think of that; AT&T's been to a lot of sites putting Firstnet hardware on them, that'll give AT&T a really nice jump on things if they can just flip on DSS on these!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gedster314 View Post
    In my area, I can turn off all bands except band 5 and my phone will connect to it but I get no internet from it. I figured it must just be used for upload. Band 66 acts the same way too.
    Neat, How do you select which lte bands to use? Turn off and on? I have a Samsung Galaxy S10 plus

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