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Thread: Verizon anticipates indoor 5G without Wi-Fi

  1. #1
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    Verizon anticipates indoor 5G without Wi-Fi

    I thought this was an interesting article.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...-without-wi-fi


    Verizon is preparing for a 5G world where Wi-Fi won't be in the picture, but new solutions will propel millimeter wave indoors in many places.

    Asked about Wi-Fi offload trends during a Citi investor conference on Tuesday, Verizon EVP and Consumer Group CEO Ronan Dunne said most people would say somewhere between 70% or 75% of traffic on a device today happens over a Wi-Fi network versus cellular.
    In a world of 5G millimeter wave, “we don’t see the need for Wi-Fi in the future because we have a more secure network environment. We have much higher performance criteria and we have the ability to hand off sessions, et cetera et cetera, so our view is that when fully deployed, there are substantial environments in which public Wi-Fi will be eliminated in favor of millimeter wave because of the security, reliability and service capabilities.”

    Mentioning cable companies, which currently use a combination of Wi-Fi and MVNO agreements with wireless operators like Verizon, they might be looking to balance traffic, and “… I’m not suggesting that Wi-Fi hotspots will disappear immediately,” but that’s traffic management rather than experience management.
    “Our view is the best experience end-to-end is being on a secure six 9s capability wireless environment end-to-end...whether you’re a consumer or a business customer,” Dunne said.

    Asked about the implication about the number of cells required to achieve that, he said the key is indoor solutions for 5G, and Verizon is already working on repeaters and nodes for indoor environments. That means covering places such as residential areas and industrial facilities with gear like repeaters and extenders much the same way Wi-Fi and mesh is used.
    That tracks with what Nicki Palmer, Verizon’s senior vice president of technology and product development, said on the sidelines of Qualcomm’s Snapdragon Summit in Maui last month. Besides repeaters based on new beamforming technologies, tools like 5G distributed antenna systems (DAS) are expected in 2020. 5G DAS gear isn’t really here yet, but it will be in 2020, she said. DAS typically has been used by carriers in venues like stadiums to improve or augment coverage and capacity.
    Dunne said Verizon's focus on mmWave has been pioneering and eventually all of its spectrum will be capable of deploying 5G with the arrival of dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) in 2020.
    This year also will see mmWave devices below $800 and later, $600, and the second half of 2020 will be important for Verizon's 5G Home product because that's when the high-powered CPE arrives.


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    Her another article as bringing 5G indoors

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...off-mmwave-hbf

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    Doesn't seem to make much sense. Not with 6 Ghz wifi coming soon.
    Which will allow fourteen additional 80Mhz channels or seven additional 160 Mhz channels. Plus lower latency as well. Supposedly down to just a few milliseconds with 6Ghz wifi. Which sounds like it should be lower than cellular 5G latency.
    It should make a huge difference with the current congestion over 5 Ghz wifi. And the paltry number of channels available on 5Ghz wifi.

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    There is a marketing fight now between carriers and WiFi Alliance. They both fight for the same spectrum (5GHz and mostly the new 6GHz) as WiFi or LTE-U/LAA and for the same customers.
    There will be money to be made...
    https://www.wi-fi.org/value-of-wi-fi
    WiFi Alliance members:
    https://www.wi-fi.org/membership/member-companies

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    Of course they will get 5g to work inside building’s otherwise there wouldn’t be much point in switching to 5g.
    The main reason folks use so much WiFi is to save money and unless Verizon finds a way to lower prices significantly folks will continue to use free WiFi as much as possible.

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    This is the way 5G is implemented in China. Offices, hotels and meeting spaces are installing 5G as a superior replacement to wifi.

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    Is 5G NR more spectrally efficient than Wi-Fi 6 / 802.11ax? 5G is certainly better at data session handoffs, and it can integrate both Wi-Fi spectrum and licensed spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmccull View Post
    This is the way 5G is implemented in China. Offices, hotels and meeting spaces are installing 5G as a superior replacement to wifi.
    That's because they can control every individual Internet activity/history that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Is 5G NR more spectrally efficient than Wi-Fi 6 / 802.11ax? 5G is certainly better at data session handoffs, and it can integrate both Wi-Fi spectrum and licensed spectrum.
    We would be still in 2G era if voice had any importance. Data is where the money are.
    As for comparation:
    https://techblog.comsoc.org/2018/07/...-5g-contender/

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    Quote Originally Posted by cycledude View Post
    Of course they will get 5g to work inside building’s otherwise there wouldn’t be much point in switching to 5g.
    The main reason folks use so much WiFi is to save money and unless Verizon finds a way to lower prices significantly folks will continue to use free WiFi as much as possible.
    You're not getting the point here. This about businesses using 5G instead of wi-fi. Not the customer of said business. In other words instead of paying some ISP for an internet connection then offloading that to wi-fi instead just slap up some 5G repeaters and have their customers connect that way.

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    5G via repeaters does make way more sense as a Wi-Fi replacement for businesses than it does for homes because it eliminates the need for customers to manually connect to each individual place’s Wi-Fi network.

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    At least with WiFi, a business, organization, or building could have a free network for anyone to connect, even if someone had a device with no SIM, plan, or provider. With 5G, you might only have service available from one provider (maybe not yours), and would be paying for the data (from your plan).

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    Verizon anticipates indoor 5G without Wi-Fi

    The 5G installs I saw in Shanghai allow for a private network. In an office environment an employee’s phone doesn’t have to be on a particular network. I didn’t find out about guests but presumably their security is not as important. OTOH since everything is done by QR code maybe all it would take is a quick scan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mframe View Post
    At least with WiFi, a business, organization, or building could have a free network for anyone to connect, even if someone had a device with no SIM, plan, or provider. With 5G, you might only have service available from one provider (maybe not yours), and would be paying for the data (from your plan).
    5G plans would be unlimited. So there is no "paying for data"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    5G plans would be unlimited. So there is no "paying for data"
    You are paying for it by paying a wireless carrier for your plan. WiFi can be free, with any phone or tablet, if a location/business/organization wants to offer it free. No paying any carrier for the data.

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    Well, Verizon can anticipate it if they want. Carriers advertised a vision of no wifi needed due to 4G too. No thanks, I don't need to pay a $20-35 fee for each computer I have, thanks. I have nothing against indoor 5G of course, just more realistic in how I'm going to use it unless the data plans change quite a bit.

    2.4ghz wifi tends to be a mess (dozens of networks on 1, 6, 11, and other in between channels), the 2.4 propagates just a bit too far, and (pre 802.11ax, which is not out yet...) the networks just step on each others toes greatly degrading speeds. 5ghz I'll see like 1/10th the networks on any given channel, the widespread use of wider channels mean transmitting some quantity of data finishes and it gets off the channel faster, getting loads of speed out of a 5ghz AP seems pretty drama free even a wifi scan ends up showing neighbors are on the same channels.

    In future, I do expect 802.11ax to MASSIVELY help 2.4ghz once enough people have it, the main speedups in 802.11ax are loads of tweaks to reduce collisions (when two devices try to transmit at once, and usually both packets are lost and have to be retransmitted). Two big ones, a modulation trick using "BSS coloring" lets neighboring access points interfere far less when they both transmit at once, reducing collisions; and the access points will more tightly coordinate when devices use the channel, so devices and access point are not trying to transmit at the same time as each other.

    Is 5G NR more spectrally efficient than Wi-Fi 6 / 802.11ax?
    Good question. That I don't know. Of course, there's paper speeds and real speeds to consider too.

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