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Thread: The final obstacle to the T-Mobile/Sprint Merger Begins Tomorrow

  1. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    That would be a no. Sprint owns the entities. The entities aren't owned by SoftBank.

    You're somehow confusing "ownership" with a "majority shareholder". They are not the same thing. Shilohcane did a good job explaining the difference in his post. For further clarification, some basic courses at a local community college may be in order.
    Aren't you just splitting hairs here? Softbank still calls the tunes at both Sprint & the Softbank subsidiaries that lent to Sprint.
    If my actions include deeds of philanthropy in charity and acts of loving kindness I am living in my Faith.

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  2. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    That would be a no. Sprint owns the entities. The entities aren't owned by SoftBank.

    You're somehow confusing "ownership" with a "majority shareholder". They are not the same thing. Shilohcane did a good job explaining the difference in his post. For further clarification, some basic courses at a local community college may be in order.
    All this talk of Softbank not being the owner of Sprint, only a shareholder makes me cringe. Who is the owner of Sprint if not the shareholders?

    I did take courses in business administration, accounting, business finance, and business law at community college and university.

    The owners of a stock corporation, such as Sprint, are the shareholders. A stock share is a unit of ownership. That is an incontrovertible fact.

    Softbank by owning 84% of Sprint stock shares is able to exercise complete control of Sprint by electing the board of directors, appointing executive officers, and setting business policy. They only need 50+% share ownership to exercise complete control.

    The 84% number of shares is significant. The stock exchanges only allow 85% of stock to be owned by a single entity before they consider the company to not be publicly traded. Softbank cannot buy more Sprint stock without the company being delisted from the stock exchanges.

    The point that shareholders are not liable for corporation debts and liabilities is generally true. If Softbank were to act corruptly in their control, contrary to law or regulations, the "Corporate Veil" could be pierced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    The article that you linked to said the companies were Sprint subsidiaries. It did not say they were Softbank subsidiaries.
    He still thinks SoftBank owns Sprint. I guess I own Bank of America, Apple, Google and Amazon since I have a few shares of each with his definition of ownership.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 01-28-2020 at 04:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    Aren't you just splitting hairs here? Softbank still calls the tunes at both Sprint & the Softbank subsidiaries that lent to Sprint.
    The point is that the debt is in Sprint’s name not SoftBank. If Sprint defaults on the loan the banks can’t be successful with a lawsuit against SoftBank. SoftBank is just a stock holder in a public owned company. Granted SoftBank is the majority stockholder in Sprint but they aren’t legally responsible for Sprint debt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post



    The 84% number of shares is significant. The stock exchanges only allow 85% of stock to be owned by a single entity before they consider the company to not be publicly traded. Softbank cannot buy more Sprint stock without the company being delisted from the stock exchanges.

    .
    Correct and that is why SoftBank can’t give Sprint anymore money without gifting the other 16% of the stock holder with the results of that money. If SoftBank gets anymore Sprint stock they will have to take Sprint private.

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    Though they paid off some debt last quarter.
    iPhone 11 is my current primary phone. I have older model iPhones and Moto phones available on other lines. Trying to simplify to 2 prepaid lines, one on the Verizon network and a limited minute plan on ATT to improve coverage area. 12 month plans to help me fight the urge to switch. The good old days of contracts where you had to pay a hefty ETF to leave

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    That would be a no. Sprint owns the entities. The entities aren't owned by SoftBank.

    You're somehow confusing "ownership" with a "majority shareholder". They are not the same thing. Shilohcane did a good job explaining the difference in his post. For further clarification, some basic courses at a local community college may be in order.
    Right, so as I said, they spectrum licenses are being held by a SoftBank owned entity, one that Masa Son sits as chairman of the board on. I accept your apology for being wrong. I get that on these boards it’s important to you to always appear to be right for some odd reason, I guess your reputation in front of an audience of 10 is important to you? But people appreciate honesty more than anything, and it’s ok to admit you were mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    He still thinks SoftBank owns Sprint. I guess I own Bank of America, Apple, Google and Amazon since I have a few shares of each with his definition of ownership.
    If you owned majority shares of them, and were chair of their board of directors, yes, you would. You would make every single decision for the company, as nobody can override you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    All this talk of Softbank not being the owner of Sprint, only a shareholder makes me cringe. Who is the owner of Sprint if not the shareholders?

    I did take courses in business administration, accounting, business finance, and business law at community college and university.

    The owners of a stock corporation, such as Sprint, are the shareholders. A stock share is a unit of ownership. That is an incontrovertible fact.

    Softbank by owning 84% of Sprint stock shares is able to exercise complete control of Sprint by electing the board of directors, appointing executive officers, and setting business policy. They only need 50+% share ownership to exercise complete control.
    Correct. I’m not sure why those 2 are trying to debate this, I guess boredom has set in since there is no merger news lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    If you owned majority shares of them, and were chair of their board of directors, yes, you would. You would make every single decision for the company, as nobody can override you.
    So if Sprint defaults on all the loans are you going to say that SoftBank is responsible to pay for all the Sprint debt since you claim they own Sprint?

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    The final obstacle to the T-Mobile/Sprint Merger Begins Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    So if Sprint defaults on all the loans are you going to say that SoftBank is responsible to pay for all the Sprint debt since you claim they own Sprint?
    No, nobody said that, you made that up yourself because reasons I guess. If sprint defaults though, SoftBank is due to lose out on a lot of money, due to some of sprint debt being owed to SoftBank created entities. So in a way, yes SoftBank is liable for some of sprints debt, as they are the ones who will take the loss on non repayment. This is how Son and SoftBank invest in sprint, without having to increase their ownership stake. This is why you hear zero chatter about a bankruptcy, it wasn’t even mentioned in court by anybody with the company. They mentioned selling off assets and decreasing markets instead, SoftBank doesn’t want sprint to default on those loans.

  12. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    No, nobody said that, you made that up yourself because reasons I guess. If sprint defaults though, SoftBank is due to lose out on a lot of money, due to some of sprint debt being owed to SoftBank created entities. So in a way, yes SoftBank is liable for some of sprints debt, as they are the ones who will take the loss on non repayment. This is how Son and SoftBank invest in sprint, without having to increase their ownership stake. This is why you hear zero chatter about a bankruptcy, it wasn’t even mentioned in court by anybody with the company. They mentioned selling off assets and decreasing markets instead, SoftBank doesn’t want sprint to default on those loans.
    Well you finally understand now and admit that SoftBank doesn’t own Sprint and isn’t responsible for Sprint’s debt. However unless SoftBank takes Sprint to private ownership due to the stock market 84% maximum stock ownership rule than Sprint is the only company that must find the money to pay for everything. Sprint can’t even make a profit. I don’t see SoftBank throwing much more money at Sprint since they can’t get more stock. Which is why SoftBank wanted a merger partnership for Sprint in the first place.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 01-28-2020 at 10:56 PM.

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    The final obstacle to the T-Mobile/Sprint Merger Begins Tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Well you finally understand now and admit that SoftBank doesn’t own Sprint and isn’t responsible for Sprint’s debt. However unless SoftBank takes Sprint to private ownership due to the stock market 84% maximum stock ownership rule than Sprint is the only company that must find the money to pay for everything. Sprint can’t even make a profit. I don’t see SoftBank throwing much more money at Sprint since they can’t get more stock. Which is why SoftBank wanted a merger partnership for Sprint in the first place.
    You made up the entire debate of SoftBank being on the hook for sprints debt, you brought up they weren’t, and debated with yourself that they weren’t. You were the only one claiming this. You literally just had a debate with yourself on that topic. Why?


    Then, in a debate with yourself over a topic you made up, you claimed SoftBank really didn’t own sprint, they were shareholders... again...why??? Just to say you didn’t think SoftBank would invest any more money through shell corporations into sprint? Ok? Why not just say that instead of making up arguments and cluttering up the thread with a debate over things nobody but you said.
    Last edited by hofonewb9; 01-29-2020 at 03:23 AM.

  14. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    Right, so as I said, they spectrum licenses are being held by a SoftBank owned entity,
    Right, you said that and you were wrong. The article you linked to clearly said the entities are owned by Sprint and not SoftBank:

    "The buyers are three of Sprint’s own newly created subsidiaries. "

    https://amp.kansascity.com/news/busi...107700387.html

    one that Masa Son sits as chairman of the board on.
    That doesn't change the fact that Sprint owns the entities, not SoftBank.


    But people appreciate honesty more than anything
    Then why are you lying that Softbank owns the entities when Sprint actually owns them. You're the one accusing shilohcane of saying something incorrectly, when your own article shows it's you who was incorrect.

    You clearly are incapable of understanding basic principles of corporate ownership. One only has to pull the filings from the newly created subsidies and it will clearly say they are owned by Sprint and not SoftBank.

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    If the merger is approved, I am curious as to what dish does with boost plan pricing. The only real mvno right now who offers unlimited data plans on T-Mobile is simple mobile. So if they keep the unlimited offering for around $50 as a T-Mobile mvno this isn’t a bad deal. Boost also has 4 for 100 unlimited plans, and also offers a $60 plan with HD streaming and 30gb of hotspot, as well as a $80 plan with HD streaming and 50gb of hotspot, which are better offerings than T-Mobile’s current postpaid and prepaid plans, are they able to keep those? For $60 on metro you only get 15gb of hard capped hotspot and 480p video streaming, so the boost plan would be a better deal on the same network. The $80 boost plan is a better offer than T-Mobile even offers their postpaid subscribers. So if approved, boost becomes really interesting.

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