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Thread: The final obstacle to the T-Mobile/Sprint Merger Begins Tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    I'm going to argue that you can present any other company that has expressed interest in building a fourth nationwide network. All you can do is say this or that company could have. Could have is not the same as wanted to.

    The difference between Dish and any other company is they already own a massive amount of unused spectrum. There is no other company possessing anything close to that. And they have a deadline to use it, so it's in the FCC's best interest to see that spectrum finally put to use.



    Picked their competition? Again, there wasn't any group of companies vying to be the fourth competitor and T-Mobile "picked". Nobody wants to lose money being the newcomer in an established industry. That's the thing that makes this industry unique. A new restaurant chain or retail store can establish a presence in just a few states. Nobody is going to not go a restaurant because it doesn't have locations on the opposite coast.

    But people will not use a cellular service if they don't have coverage in areas where they travel. Hence a competitor in the wireless industry must go nationwide to fully compete. And the cost of doing that is in most cases prohibitive. Because of Dish's spectrum position they have a shot. But I will not assume their success.
    I can argue the same, can you present any evidence that nobody else was interested in buying the spectrum? All anyone can go by is reports, which can be both inaccurate or accurate, the truth is we never know.

    Well yes, TMobile chose to make a deal with dish, are you suggesting the DOJ told them it's dish or nobody else? If this was true, it would be highly problematic for the DOJ.

    So, you feel dish isn't a negative on this merger and shouldn't be questioned on their motives, past, or sincerity to deliver what they promise? Or, should the judge not care about dish, and just figure "if TMobile says it's ok, then it's ok" because I would think that would mean the judge didn't do their job.

  2. #122
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    Who has the burden of proof in this case, T-Mobile or the State AGs?
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Who has the burden of proof in this case, T-Mobile or the State AGs?
    Judging by past anti trust trials it would be TMobile that has to prove that their merger would not harm competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    What argument has the State made that was effective? The only one I have read is the State lawyer said that SoftBank could invest all the money it takes to rebuild Sprint into a viable competitive cell network. SoftBank has had a 78% of Sprint stock since 2012 but SoftBank is just a stock holder of a public traded company that can’t increase their stock percentage without taking Sprint private. Sprint hasn’t made a profit since 2006 except for a few quarters due mainly to a tax cut. SoftBank has publicly said it isn’t going to save Sprint from the bank debt. Unless the states wants to buy Sprint and prove they can’t run a business Sprint is going to run out of money fast. Which will lead to every thing the stupid State Attorneys are saying will happen in a merger with T-Mobile of people losing their jobs and in the end we have only three networks.

    Please tell me what great arguments the State has made to address Sprint’s future bankruptcy other than SoftBank can afford to waste more money on Sprint?
    Well tmobile jumped the gun on nationwide 5g so it basically says they can compete without Sprint. If I was tmobile I would have waited. Also with Sprint mentioning prices will go up I think that fuels the states arguments. Sprints ceo dropped the ball on that one in my opinion with the text or whatever came out recently

    On the other side, with sprints track record being so bad I think that could help from the 4th competitor aspect since Sprint seems to be crashing as it is. With dish they could become a good 4th carrier if they take things serious and really build out over time. Piggy backing on tmobile should get them going really fast

    One thing I think tmobile should also have waited on was the announcement for John stepping down. In people's minds that probably gets them to wonder how far the promises will go after John is no longer there. In people's mind John is the uncarrier so not sure I understand that announcement until after the deal is done

    Tmobile could win the case or even settle so it's all up in the air at this point. The states are trying hard to prove it will harm competition but if tmobile does things right it could help competition but helping and proving it can be 2 different things in court

    I just hope sprints lack of competence or dishs lack of previously builds don't ruin the deal for Tmobile. Many seem to think dish isn't the best 4th and they may be right if we look at their track record. If the state can successfully prove that it could show going from 4 to 3 could harm competition that could potentially hurt tmobiles chances



    Sent from my VS880 using HoFo mobile app

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Great so now someone that created a new account less than 2 months ago is telling long time members what we can and cannot talk about even if I was never addressing the question to you in the first place.
    The states have poked major holes in tmobiles maps, poked holes in their so called nationwide 5g (that alone shows they dont need sprint) so T-Mobile needs to mellow out on the magenta koolaid or they are going lose the case. The magenta koolaid works with young kids but not in court. Sprint needs tmobile more than tmoible needs them

    I'm rooting for T-Mobile but they are making some bonehead moves lately

    Their decisions lately seem like they came into court thinking it would be an easy win but they learned the first day that's not the case

    I love T-Mobile but they are getting walloped in court so they need a new game plan. They may be able to settle by offering to do the union stuff but what the heck is T-Mobile thinking? Its like the higher ups are going to take the money and run

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanhimself View Post
    It seems like the states have made better arguments in court so far if all the rumors are true but that could change fast.



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    The first few days were for the State AG's hence why it looks one sided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    Keep saying it, dish may be the undoing of this.

    https://www.lightreading.com/t-mobil.../d/d-id/756234


    "The judge in the case appeared most interested in how Dish Network might be positioned to replace Sprint as a fourth nationwide wireless network provider if Sprint and T-Mobile are permitted to merge. According to the New Street analysts, the judge asked Höttges whether Dish can scale its operations and whether it can compete in the long term.

    Finally, an interesting subplot to emerge during the proceeding involved Dish's Charlie Ergen and his negotiating tactics. Höttges testified that Ergen was "not easy to deal with," according to Reuters. And the analysts at New Street said that Höttges met with Amazon executives after rumors surfaced in 2017 indicating that Amazon was interested in some kind of wireless partnership with Dish. Amazon, Höttges wrote, "clearly denied being interested" in a Dish partnership, and he said he believed the whole thing was "another one of Charlie Ergen's stupid bluffs."
    Dish may be in the greatest position to actually create a national network. It is all laid out in the DoJ's approval.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...89336/download

    I don't see a Google, Apple, Amazon, or any other white knight company people love that have the Spectrum to match what Dish all ready has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by n33d0n3 View Post
    Dish may be in the greatest position to actually create a national network. It is all laid out in the DoJ's approval.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...89336/download

    I don't see a Google, Apple, Amazon, or any other white knight company people love that have the Spectrum to match what Dish all ready has.
    I've read the DOJ's approval. This doesn't change the fact the dish has been in this position for a loooooong time, and has made absolutely no moves to ever follow through on anything. All they have done, is spectrum squat and beg the FCC for more time, hoping one of those white knight companies would make them a huge offer for the spectrum.


    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...rding-spectrum

    TMobile even called out dish just last year, now they want to convince everyone dish is the savior? Im not sure that will work. Dish was a mistake, and gave the states an easy target to attack. In my opinion the DOJ would of been better off just allowing TMobile to keep everything if they were going to approve the merger. That way the court challenge would be only about if removing Sprint hurts competition, now it's based on can dish provide competition. History says no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I've read the DOJ's approval. This doesn't change the fact the dish has been in this position for a loooooong time, and has made absolutely no moves to ever follow through on anything. All they have done, is spectrum squat and beg the FCC for more time, hoping one of those white knight companies would make them a huge offer for the spectrum.


    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...rding-spectrum

    TMobile even called out dish just last year, now they want to convince everyone dish is the savior? Im not sure that will work. Dish was a mistake, and gave the states an easy target to attack.
    Yeah dish could be a good carrier but their track record proves otherwise. Whoever chose dish to be the savior for the T-Mobile deal is probably kidding themselves of they think it will be an easy win for T-Mobile

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    I can argue the same, can you present any evidence that nobody else was interested in buying the spectrum?
    You're the one who stated: "there was nobody else contacted by many reports. TMobile eyed their puppet"

    So I had a simple question. Who else was interested to build out a fourth network? Your answer speaks volumes as you don't have a single company that has expressed interest in doing that. Not one. Yet you're trying to accuse T-Mobile of ignoring other choices to "pick" Dish.

    Until you name other choices who would have also accepted this deal, you can't claim T-Mobile picked. I maintain that T-Mobile involved the only available company so that they could get DOJ approval. That's the only company that I've seen that expressed any interest.

    If you present evidence to the contrary, I will review it.

    are you suggesting the DOJ told them it's dish or nobody else?
    Not at all. I'm suggesting nobody else was interested. And I already stated the likely reason that nobody else was interested---because any other company didn't have the spectrum position that Dish has.

    So, you feel dish isn't a negative on this merger
    It's not what I "feel". The agreement with Dish was vital to get this far. Whether the judge will be overly concerned with Dish remains to be seen once the verdict is issued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    "In earlier testimony Wednesday, a Sprint executive said his company wouldn’t survive much longer without a proposed $26.5 billion takeover by T-Mobile, because it lacks the resources to upgrade its networks and has generally weak business prospects.

    “Sprint would not be viable within the next two years,” Jay Bluhm, the vice president of network development and engineering, said in response to a question from the judge on Sprint’s future as a stand-alone. "


    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...conomist-says/
    That is reality. Sprint could file for Chapter 11 if they don’t get a merger then lay off people. SoftBank is overextended financially now and has cut off Sprint to sink or swim on their own. SoftBank is just a stockholder and could bid for Sprint’s spectrum in a court ordered bankruptcy auction. Either way SoftBank gets to use their stock loss off their other profits Alibaba stocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    You're the one who stated: "there was nobody else contacted by many reports. TMobile eyed their puppet"

    So I had a simple question. Who else was interested to build out a fourth network? Your answer speaks volumes as you don't have a single company that has expressed interest in doing that. Not one. Yet you're trying to accuse T-Mobile of ignoring other choices to "pick" Dish.

    Until you name other choices who would have also accepted this deal, you can't claim T-Mobile picked. I maintain that T-Mobile involved the only available company so that they could get DOJ approval. That's the only company that I've seen that expressed any interest.

    If you present evidence to the contrary, I will review it.



    Not at all. I'm suggesting nobody else was interested. And I already stated the likely reason that nobody else was interested---because any other company didn't have the spectrum position that Dish has.



    It's not what I "feel". The agreement with Dish was vital to get this far. Whether the judge will be overly concerned with Dish remains to be seen once the verdict is issued.
    Well, Bloomberg reported comcast and charter contacted the DOJ,

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...g-cable-giants

    which was denied by comcast, though, a public denial isn't shocking, as companies do so all the time, B.C. even denied in 2017 that TMobile was interested in a Sprint merger. Do you have any reports stating the only company interested was dish? As far as you reviewing it, if it doesn't meet your standards, then what? Lol


    As far as the judge being interested, we don't have to wait for the verdict to determine that, it appears the judge is already pretty interested in dish. Whether or not he believes them, that we have to wait for the verdict to determine.

    Also, of course it's about how you "feel", it's an opinion thread about something that nobody here has control over. Every post here is about "feelings" as nobody has really any inside knowledge, or control over what will happen.


    As far as the agreement being vital to get here, not really, would things be any different if TMobile declined divesting, and instead took on the DOJ in court? Not really, we'd be in the same spot, TMobile in court trying to get their merger, except they wouldn't have to try to defend dish, a year after they called them out in public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by themanhimself View Post
    It seems like the states have made better arguments in court so far if all the rumors are true but that could change fast.
    So far the states have made a much better case. But as you said, that could change. But there's so much working against T-Mobile's and Sprint's case that it'd be hard for the judge to rule in favor of the merger if he bases his decision on the facts of the case.

    Did the states bring up that T-Mobile used to be in fourth place, and was insisting that without the AT&T merger that they could not continue on their own? It's déjà vu all over again except this time it's a strong T-Mobile and a weak Sprint instead of a strong AT&T and a weak T-Mobile.

    Following the failed AT&T/T-Mobile merger Deutsche Telekom decided to invest the necessary capital into T-Mobile to turn it around, and soon T-Mobile passed Sprint in the number of subscribers. Of course the money, spectrum, and roaming that AT&T had to provide to T-Mobile after the merger failed was a big help in T-Mobile's turnaround.

    What we have now (total subscribers including retail postpaid, retail prepaid, wholesale, and MVNO)

    AT&T: 162 million
    Verizon: 119 million
    T-Mobile: 83 million
    Sprint: 54 million

    What we will have if the merger is approved (total subscribers including retail postpaid, retail prepaid, wholesale, and MVNO)

    AT&T: 162 million
    T-Mobile: 129 million
    Verizon: 119 million
    Dish: 8 million

    Hopefully no one believes that the post-merger scenario will increase competitiveness!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur101 View Post
    The states have poked major holes in tmobiles maps, poked holes in their so called nationwide 5g (that alone shows they dont need sprint) so T-Mobile needs to mellow out on the magenta koolaid or they are going lose the case. The magenta koolaid works with young kids but not in court. Sprint needs tmobile more than tmoible needs them

    I'm rooting for T-Mobile but they are making some bonehead moves lately

    Their decisions lately seem like they came into court thinking it would be an easy win but they learned the first day that's not the case

    I love T-Mobile but they are getting walloped in court so they need a new game plan. They may be able to settle by offering to do the union stuff but what the heck is T-Mobile thinking? Its like the higher ups are going to take the money and run
    I think that it's just as you say. The Kool Aid that works on young kids, and that love John Legere's unconventional marketing tactics, may not work on the judge. We shall see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by themanhimself View Post
    Well tmobile jumped the gun on nationwide 5g so it basically says they can compete without Sprint. If I was tmobile I would have waited. Also with Sprint mentioning prices will go up I think that fuels the states arguments. Sprints ceo dropped the ball on that one in my opinion with the text or whatever came out recently

    On the other side, with sprints track record being so bad I think that could help from the 4th competitor aspect since Sprint seems to be crashing as it is. With dish they could become a good 4th carrier if they take things serious and really build out over time. Piggy backing on tmobile should get them going really fast

    One thing I think tmobile should also have waited on was the announcement for John stepping down. In people's minds that probably gets them to wonder how far the promises will go after John is no longer there. In people's mind John is the uncarrier so not sure I understand that announcement until after the deal is done

    Tmobile could win the case or even settle so it's all up in the air at this point. The states are trying hard to prove it will harm competition but if tmobile does things right it could help competition but helping and proving it can be 2 different things in court

    I just hope sprints lack of competence or dishs lack of previously builds don't ruin the deal for Tmobile. Many seem to think dish isn't the best 4th and they may be right if we look at their track record. If the state can successfully prove that it could show going from 4 to 3 could harm competition that could potentially hurt tmobiles chances



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    T-Mobile deployment of nationwide 5 G was strategic. T-Mobile keep the ADs from claiming in court T-Mobile would never deploy 5G nationwide since even AT&T and Verizon couldn’t afford to do that. T-Mobile has never argued that they were in financial trouble without Sprint. T-Mobile argued they needed Sprint’s spectrum to build a Robust & Wide 5G Nationwide Network. Sprint is the one that is dead meat without a merger.

    Forget Dish they don’t have enough money to buy Sprint. Obviously Sprint doesn’t know how to build a network but Dish is clueless about Terrestrial Network. Dish was looking for a partnership to build out their network since they didn’t even have $10 billion. Dish Network tried to get Comcast, Charter and Amazon but no one wants to be in business with Charlie Ergen. Without the merger Dish will never start a new national network. SoftBank shopped Sprint around for years and T-Mobile is the only one interest in Sprint due to their huge debt.

    No big deal if the merger is killed since Sprint is going bankrupt without the merger. T-Mobile and others will buy the spectrum from the banks and the Sprint customers will go to other networks. The FCC 3.5 GHz Spectrum auction starts in June 2020. Plus Dish will probably sell their spectrum. There will be lots of spectrum then since there will only be three networks. SoftBank should just shut down Sprint, Fire all the Sprint employees if the court rules against the merger and stick it in the face of all those stupid State ADs. Then I bet the judge would reconsider the merger.

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