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Thread: The final obstacle to the T-Mobile/Sprint Merger Begins Tomorrow

  1. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    When my wife was a law clerk for a federal judge a very long time ago, she said it usually worked like this- the judge made his or her decision then told the clerks to go find appropriate law to back up that decision!

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    This case depends on whether the judge believes Charlie Ergen and John Legere, or the state attorney generals.

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    Agreed, which means VZW And At&t will never have true competition. And t-mobile will have to stop growing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Well they won't have to raise prices because they won't win any spectrum because Verizon an at&t will outbid them. They certainly won't get any CBRS spectrum that will be auctioned in June and will probably be deployable by the end of the year. The might get some C-Band spectrum if the FCC places limits on how much any one carrier can by if that limit is 120 MHz or less. So maybe T-Mobile end up with 40 MHz which is not going to be enough. And the action won't start until the end of 2020 which means it won't be over until early 2021 then it usually take a few months before licenses are actually rewards. So mid 2021 before T-Mobile can deploy it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianAngela View Post
    Prices aren't set by the underlying costs. They are set by the market and by the competition.
    And the fact that Verizon and at&t can offer worse plans at higher prices while keeping churn below 1% shows you the level of competition T-Mobile currently provides. The fanboys here think I'm hating on T-mobile. I'm not. I WANT them to be successful and put actual pressure on at&t and Verizon that only happens with a merger. if I was such pro-Verizon I would want he merger to die and for Verizon to get most of the spectrum in the auctions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    And the fact that Verizon and at&t can offer worse plans at higher prices while keeping churn below 1% shows you the level of competition T-Mobile currently provides. The fanboys here think I'm hating on T-mobile. I'm not i WANT them to be successful and put actual pressure on at&t and Verizon that only happens wit a merger. if I was such pro-Verizon I would want he merger to die and for Verizon to get most of the spectrum in the auctions
    I'd disagree. Sure, VZW and AT&T offer worse plans at higher prices at full MSRP, but don't forget the level of competition T-Mo and Sprint provide are why the big two compete through subsidiaries and/or MVNOs. Cricket is AT&T's way to compete with T-Mobile on price, while "real" AT&T is their way to compete with better coverage/service.



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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    I'd disagree. Sure, VZW and AT&T offer worse plans at higher prices at full MSRP, but don't forget the level of competition T-Mo and Sprint provide are why the big two compete through subsidiaries and/or MVNOs. Cricket is AT&T's way to compete with T-Mobile on price, while "real" AT&T is their way to compete with better coverage/service.



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    prepaid anywhere is garbage compared to the actual company

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    prepaid anywhere is garbage compared to the actual company
    Thanks for explaining to all of us why AT&T and VZW can still attract full priced customers even though they also supply cheaper service though other companies.

    You must enjoy your Verizon service as your chauffeur drives your Rolls Royce between meals at Peter Lugar and Momofuku...

    (I'm not suggesting that only the uber-rich can afford Verizon, I'm only pointing out that all of us make choices based on quality vs. price for every product and service we buy, including wireless.)

    All wireless service is various levels of garbage compared to whatever is your ideal. Every Verizon snob I talk to, who wouldn't even consider another service because they only have x% of Verizon coverage, I ask a simple question: if coverage is the be all-end all, and Verizon still doesn't work everywhere, why do you use Verizon instead of a satellite phone?

    And of course, the answer is obvious, satellite phones are bulky, expensive (both device and service) lack realistic data options, etc. But it makes the point that you're willing to give up *some* coverage for better data, cheaper rates, etc. Once we've established you're willing to make any compromise, it's just a matter of deciding where on the scale of Verizon to, say, Boost Mobile, you're willing to slide down.

    And simply dismissing all prepaid as "garbage" means you've probably not researched your options thoroughly. Which is fine; the more people like you paying full price for full service means the more Verizon and AT&T can afford to discount their wholesale rates for those of us willing to compromise a little. Thanks for your service!





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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    I'd disagree. Sure, VZW and AT&T offer worse plans at higher prices at full MSRP, but don't forget the level of competition T-Mo and Sprint provide are why the big two compete through subsidiaries and/or MVNOs. Cricket is AT&T's way to compete with T-Mobile on price, while "real" AT&T is their way to compete with better coverage/service.



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    I was under the impression MVNO’s and prepaid don’t really compete with postpaid.

    Doesn’t that kind of a punch a pretty big hole in the idea that Dish won’t compete as a MVNO while they build out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    And the fact that Verizon and at&t can offer worse plans at higher prices while keeping churn below 1% shows you the level of competition T-Mobile currently provides. The fanboys here think I'm hating on T-mobile. I'm not. I WANT them to be successful and put actual pressure on at&t and Verizon that only happens with a merger. if I was such pro-Verizon I would want he merger to die and for Verizon to get most of the spectrum in the auctions
    People choose AT&T and Verizon not because of the price or the amount of data but because they value the quality of the network.

    Will the judge believe that the merger will make T-Mobile competitive and hold down, or reduce the prices charged by AT&T and Verizon? Will it raise prices for lower-cost plans from the poorer carriers. Right now, Sprint and T-Mobile compete for the customers for whom good coverage is not of much concern. If they merge, and become a viable first tier national carrier, there will be no competition other than MVNOs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by n33d0n3 View Post
    I was under the impression MVNO’s and prepaid don’t really compete with postpaid.

    Doesn’t that kind of a punch a pretty big hole in the idea that Dish won’t compete as a MVNO while they build out?
    I think they compete, but I guess it's how you define a market. Does Taco Bell compete with Chili's? Not directly, perhaps, but if I eat lunch at one, I'm not eating lunch at the other. That's competition on some level.

    If I choose Cricket over T-Mobile, AT&T is getting my monthly payment, not T-Mo. Virtually everyone who chooses prepaid or an MVNO in the US, is putting money in the palm of one of the four national carriers.





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    Quote Originally Posted by n33d0n3 View Post
    I was under the impression MVNO’s and prepaid don’t really compete with postpaid.

    Doesn’t that kind of a punch a pretty big hole in the idea that Dish won’t compete as a MVNO while they build out?
    I think that some MVNOs do compete. Look at América Móvil with about 21 million subscribers across its many brands. Look at Consumer Cellular with about 3.5 million lines. Prepaid and MVNOs are not just for low-income individuals and criminals anymore. América Móvil has brands that cater to low-income users and brands that compete well with postpaid plans.

    As with many products, the most heavily advertised prepaid and MVNO providers are often not the best options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    Thanks for explaining to all of us why AT&T and VZW can still attract full priced customers even though they also supply cheaper service though other companies.
    It's true. You want to think a turd sandwich an angus beef steak are the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianAngela View Post
    I think that some MVNOs do compete.
    No they don't. Do you know what a MVNO is? Guess whose networks they use? Guess who gets paid when a MVNOs customers uses that network? While Dish would initially use T-Mobile's network( at a curtate rate lower than any MVNO by the way ) eventually they will build out their own network. Now I get that's a big If because ... well.. we're talking about Dish, but Dish has the spectrum to have their own network unlike any MVNOs currently out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    It's true. You want to think a turd sandwich an angus beef steak are the same thing.
    Haven't looked at prepaid offerings in a while eh? Take a look at what at&t has done to their at&t prepaid brand, then go to the at&t subreddit and look at all the at&t postpaid customers who switched to those "turd sandwiches". Bet those people are glad TMobile has put competitive prepaid pressure on at&t to make changes. Prepaid is the only U.S. wireless segment where At&t is seeing any type of substantial growth.

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    Many do not follow the Prepaid delivery model due to their own preconceived ideas on the service... Even if it effectively is the same service that you currently have, sometimes minus a few fringe benefits, but with more often lower overall cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    Many do not follow the Prepaid delivery model due to their own preconceived ideas on the service... Even if it effectively is the same service that you currently have, sometimes minus a few fringe benefits, but with more often lower overall cost.

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    This exactly.

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