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Thread: The final obstacle to the T-Mobile/Sprint Merger Begins Tomorrow

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    prepaid anywhere is garbage compared to the actual company
    I have used a prepaid MVNO, Tracfone specifically, for the past eighteen years for a cost of next to nothing for all the cell service I need. I can say with complete confidence based on sufficient experience that prepaid, for me, is not garbage or a dung sandwich.

    I recently helped a friend get off AT&T postpaid to Verizon Prepaid for a savings of $70 a month. Many people would appreciate saving $70 a month to invest or spend on something more interesting.

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    I say a huge amount of postpaid loyalty is due to advertising. Most people are sheep.
    If my actions include deeds of philanthropy in charity and acts of loving kindness I am living in my Faith.

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    Honestly, the judge almost has to approve the merger. To not do so, would set a very dangerous precedent.

    To appease, perhaps there will be additional stipulations, but to outright deny would be like the wild wild west.

    Could you imagine the appellate courts disgust asking who does the judge think he is to overturn not one but two Federal Agencies!? UNHEARD OF!!!

    So yeah, being that no judge wants their decision overturned the "good ones" try to get it right the first time. Merger will be approved yes, IMO the only question will be are there stipulations added on by the judge.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_opeN View Post
    Honestly, the judge almost has to approve the merger. To not do so, would set a very dangerous precedent.

    To appease, perhaps there will be additional stipulations, but to outright deny would be like the wild wild west.

    Could you imagine the appellate courts disgust asking who does the judge think he is to overturn not one but two Federal Agencies!? UNHEARD OF!!!

    So yeah, being that no judge wants their decision overturned the "good ones" try to get it right the first time. Merger will be approved yes, IMO the only question will be are there stipulations added on by the judge.


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    What are you talking about. A Judge just overturned a choice by the DOJ with the At&t/time Warner deal. The DOJ sued to block, a judge disagrees and it held up just fine in appellate court. If the judge goes on precedent, the merger is in trouble as horizontal mergers are tough to pass. In the At&t and Time Warner deal, part of the judges decision was based on precedent. Vertical mergers generally do not pose anti trust issues. Horizontal mergers on the other hand, very well can.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    I say a huge amount of postpaid loyalty is due to advertising. Most people are sheep.
    A lot of people want the heavily subsidized flagship phones that the postpaid carriers offer. The MVNOs may offer a slight discount, but for the most part you're expected to either pay full price for a flagship phone or buy a low-end phone from the MVNO.

    Look at Postpaid on Verizon for two lines with two iPhone 11

    Postpaid Verizon
    ------------------
    2 iPhone 11 $700 (buy one get one free)
    24 months of service $140 x 24 = $3360
    Total $4060

    Prepaid Total Wireless
    ------------------------
    2 iPhone 11 $1400
    24 months of service $1370
    Total $2770

    $1290 savings over 24 months

    Explaining to someone that paying $700 more upfront for 2 iPhones, then paying $1990 less for service over the next 24 months, is not always easy, and many people are so well off that they simply don't care about saving a thousand dollars two years. And it's true that the postpaid service has some advantages like Wi-Fi calling, and international and domestic roaming, and more data.

    Also, there are often discounts available on postpaid service, corporate discounts, veterans discounts, etc..

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    When my wife was a law clerk for a federal judge a very long time ago, she said it usually worked like this- the judge made his or her decision then told the clerks to go find appropriate law to back up that decision!
    Right but the judge may ask the clerks to summarize the arguments and evidence. I doubt one judge has the ability to read everything the parties submit.
    Donald Newcomb

  7. #817
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    Well I still say a huge amount of postpaid loyalty is due to advertising. And that most people are sheep.

    The knowledgeable folks on Hofo are a small dot of the whole inkwell of cellular consumers. I'll go so far as saying that most people outside of Hofo aren't even making conscious choices. If you ask them their reasons they seldom add up dollars & cents wise. But are emotionally driven. But they can't see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    Well I still say a huge amount of postpaid loyalty is due to advertising. And that most people are sheep......
    I see a great deal of inertia. People do what they've always done. I know people who only have $30/month plans and never turn their cell phone on. They only have it in case the car breaks down. If they try a carrier and don't like it, they'll never try it again. It will be forever tainted. My brother tried T-Mobile 15 years ago and didn't like it. He'll never try them again. This is one reason that T-Mobile should not exaggerate their coverage maps. If someone buys because T-Mobile's maps show service at the farm and their phone doesn't work there, they'll brand T-Mobile as charlatans, run back to their former carrier and never try T-Mobile again. "Fooled once..."

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    There is also the fact that 2 government agencies approved this and 36 out of 50 states don't have issues with it either
    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_opeN View Post
    Honestly, the judge almost has to approve the merger. To not do so, would set a very dangerous precedent.

    To appease, perhaps there will be additional stipulations, but to outright deny would be like the wild wild west.

    Could you imagine the appellate courts disgust asking who does the judge think he is to overturn not one but two Federal Agencies!? UNHEARD OF!!!

    So yeah, being that no judge wants their decision overturned the "good ones" try to get it right the first time. Merger will be approved yes, IMO the only question will be are there stipulations added on by the judge.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    What are you talking about. A Judge just overturned a choice by the DOJ with the At&t/time Warner deal. The DOJ sued to block, a judge disagrees and it held up just fine in appellate court. If the judge goes on precedent, the merger is in trouble as horizontal mergers are tough to pass. In the At&t and Time Warner deal, part of the judges decision was based on precedent. Vertical mergers generally do not pose anti trust issues. Horizontal mergers on the other hand, very well can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasonDoctorJT View Post
    There is also the fact that 2 government agencies approved this and 36 out of 50 states don't have issues with it either

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    Yes, but who approves it doesn't overly matters. States aren't below the federal government when it comes to challenging anti trust issues. 1 state could sue and get the merger blocked. The states hold the same power the DOJ does with anti trust cases, as long as the companies do business in their states. The Judge will likely review the DOJ and FCC approval, and use their statements, but they are under no obligation to agree. Federal judges overturn government decisions all the time, it's nothing new. Every administration has policies that get challenged in court, some hold, some don't.

    If TMobile loses, they can appeal if they want, the grounds can't be a sad picture of J.L. though, they have to have grounds on why they think the judge made a mistake, or that the trial was biased or unfair. They can appeal all the way to the supreme Court if they want. Of course, this is all on their wallet as well. If the states lose, they can do the same thing. I'm not sure either side appeals though. TMobile may try one appeal, but wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    Yes, but who approves it doesn't overly matters. States aren't below the federal government when it comes to challenging anti trust issues. 1 state could sue and get the merger blocked. The states hold the same power the DOJ does with anti trust cases, as long as the companies do business in their states. The Judge will likely review the DOJ and FCC approval, and use their statements, but they are under no obligation to agree. Federal judges overturn government decisions all the time, it's nothing new. Every administration has policies that get challenged in court, some hold, some don't.

    If TMobile loses, they can appeal if they want, the grounds can't be a sad picture of J.L. though, they have to have grounds on why they think the judge made a mistake, or that the trial was biased or unfair. They can appeal all the way to the supreme Court if they want. Of course, this is all on their wallet as well. If the states lose, they can do the same thing. I'm not sure either side appeals though. TMobile may try one appeal, but wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
    This is different though in that the Federal government actually sides with T-Mobile and Sprint. Also, this M&A has been thoroughly vetted.

    IMO, the AT&T M&A was not. Want proof... As a DirecTV Now/AT&T Now customer my prices have gone up twice in the last 9-12 months. Hell AT&T didn't even wait for the ink to dry when they won to start raising prices. But somehow that M&A gets a pass!? Da fudge!!!!

    Vertical versus Horizontal is also overrated and out dated as it can't speak to the character of the companies. That we've come this far, only reiterates and highlights the political nature of this M&A.

    I think it's easy to overturn a disagreement right, because well it's a disagreement. But why rule against something agreed upon with MASSIVE CONDITIONS!?

    The courts are there for a reason. Hopefully T-Mobile will continue to fight for a favorable conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_opeN View Post
    This is different though in that the Federal government actually sides with T-Mobile and Sprint. Also, this M&A has been thoroughly vetted.

    IMO, the AT&T M&A was not. Want proof... As a DirecTV Now/AT&T Now customer my prices have gone up twice in the last 9-12 months. Hell AT&T didn't even wait for the ink to dry when they won to start raising prices. But somehow that M&A gets a pass!? Da fudge!!!!

    Vertical versus Horizontal is also overrated and out dated as it can't speak to the character of the companies. That we've come this far, only reiterates and highlights the political nature of this M&A.

    I think it's easy to overturn a disagreement right, because well it's a disagreement. But why rule against something agreed upon with MASSIVE CONDITIONS!?

    The courts are there for a reason. Hopefully T-Mobile will continue to fight for a favorable conclusion.
    You are trying to debate something, by countering with stuff that disagrees with your original argument lol.

    Correct, federal courts are there for a reason, to oversee all constitutional law and keep even federal agencies in check to make sure they are following those laws. This includes anti trust issues which is the basis of the lawsuit. The DOJ does not have the power to approve or deny any merger. All they have the power to do is decide if they sue to stop it. That's it. Only a federal judge has the power to say no, or yes, as states and even individuals are allowed to sue on anti trust grounds as well.

    So, you don't feel the DOJ fully vetted the At&t merger, but have complete confidence that they did the TMobile merger? Lol alrighty.....

  13. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    You are trying to debate something, by countering with stuff that disagrees with your original argument lol.

    Correct, federal courts are there for a reason, to oversee all constitutional law and keep even federal agencies in check to make sure they are following those laws. This includes anti trust issues which is the basis of the lawsuit. The DOJ does not have the power to approve or deny any merger. All they have the power to do is decide if they sue to stop it. That's it. Only a federal judge has the power to say no, or yes, as states and even individuals are allowed to sue on anti trust grounds as well.

    So, you don't feel the DOJ fully vetted the At&t merger, but have complete confidence that they did the TMobile merger? Lol alrighty.....
    Anyways I hope this merger gets approval, but we just have to wait and see the judge's final ruling.


    Federal Judges are appointed by the President of the United States. Once the Federal Judge is confirmed then that judge serves on the bench until he or she retires. Thus, Federal judges usually serve on the bench for 20-30 years on average.

    The link below shows the number of federal judges currently active.


    https://ballotpedia.org/Current_fede...nt_and_circuit
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  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_opeN View Post

    I think it's easy to overturn a disagreement right, because well it's a disagreement. But why rule against something agreed upon with MASSIVE CONDITIONS!?

    The courts are there for a reason. Hopefully T-Mobile will continue to fight for a favorable conclusion.
    Well, I'm sure the states in the suit would argue that they were not involved in drafting those MASSIVE CONDITIONS...


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    Quote Originally Posted by trees12 View Post
    Anyways I hope this merger gets approval, but we just have to wait and see the judge's final ruling.


    Federal Judges are appointed by the President of the United States. Once the Federal Judge is confirmed then that judge serves on the bench until he or she retires. Thus, Federal judges usually serve on the bench for 20-30 years on average.

    The link below shows the number of federal judges currently active.


    https://ballotpedia.org/Current_fede...nt_and_circuit
    Thats true. Another point is people are talking about an appeal, people need to remember that appeals are heard by a panel, and even though politicians like to call a federal judge an "obama judge" or a "Trump judge", judges do not view themselves as that, and there is a such thing as the integrity of the court. To win an appeal, you have to have solid grounds to appeal on.

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