Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 54

Thread: My Initial experience with low-band 5G

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,873
    Device(s)
    iPhone 11 Pro 256 GB Midnight Green
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T Mobility
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    No network has customers with many 5G phones. Non-Stand-Alone 5G still has 4G as the controls that add latency and reduces speed. Agree once DSS is working on Stand-Alone 5G we can see a lot of improvement on low band spectrum.
    I wasn’t implying we will see a lot of improvement from low band spectrum, because we won’t until we see 4x4 lowband handsets hit the market, and even then, the benefits are nearly negligible, because getting antenna isolation from such low frequencies is difficult. Seeing those midband double the speed improvements is difficult, now imagine doing that when you have even less isolation due to a larger wavelength. Midband 5G is exciting, lowband is purely marketing. If you disagree that’s ok, but from a throughput standpoint low band 5G is worse than LTE. You will see other improvements in ping time, which IMO are as important as throughput, but the 5G T-Mobile has rolled out is purely marketing. The 20% speed boost is found because no handsets are on the market. You’ve seen the infographic I posted.

    Ok let me ask you a question that I not sure about with DSS. I know after SA 5G with Erickson 5G equipment that it will allow DSS to use the same physical spectrum to deliver both 5G and 4G LTE to users. What I am not sure about if that works with only people that have 5G phones or does DSS deliver data to a 4G LTE only phone from that same physical spectrum block? Overall I am asking can a network with DSS put 5G on all their low band spectrum to service both 5G and 4G only phones?
    It uses the same physical spectrum block. Let’s say we have a 5 MHz carrier.

    We divide it into 5 different chunks, calling them 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

    Now LTE phones have the ability to see 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3A, 3B, 3C, 4A, 4B, 4C, 5A, 5B, and 5C. Those are the parts of the spectrum they can broadcast on.

    NR is different in that the timing is even more precise, so NR phones can see 1A-1, 1A-2, 1A-3, 1B-1, 1B-2, 1B-3, 1C-1, 1C-2, 1C-3....5C-3.

    DSS allows 5G phones to tap into those smaller timings to push data through. As we see a shift to 5G phones, more of those will be taken up by 5G phones. Again, a marketing thing. No such thing as a free lunch. There is overhead involved with all of this, so you’re going to get slightly less capacity than a clean 5 MHz channel. DSS is about getting the coverage layer out. The real improvements come with midband 2.5/3.5/3.7-4.2 GHz and mmW. The improvements in lowband through PCS are primarily ping time improvements, with *slight* improvements to capacity in 15 and 20 MHz FDD channels. Ping times are a valid improvement.

    Hope that helps.


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

    Chicago, IL
    2+46+46+46+4 (85 MHz DL, 15 MHz UL)


    Duluth, MN
    4+14 UL CA (30 MHz DL/UL)

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,484
    Device(s)
    S9
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Jakeuten thanks for the information. What you described Above the Sub-Block chunks is that part of what they call “ Network Slicing “? It is very confusing with all the different statements about DSS that all seem to vary with using both 5G and 4G. This Fiercewireless article that I am quoting below maybe just a simplified capability of 5G but this statement is why I ask since is sounds incredible.

    “ DSS was explained to me this way. Without DSS, an operator that has 20 MHz of mid-band spectrum would have to split that spectrum in two. In other words, they would have to allocate 10 MHz of spectrum to 4G LTE and cram all their LTE users into that 10 MHz of spectrum. Then the remaining 10 MHz of AWS spectrum could be used for 5G, even though initially there will only be a minimal number of 5G users. With DSS, an operator doesn’t have to split that mid-band spectrum or have dedicated spectrum for either 4G LTE or 5G. Instead they can share that 20 MHz of spectrum between the two technologies.“. https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...eployment-game

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,873
    Device(s)
    iPhone 11 Pro 256 GB Midnight Green
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T Mobility
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Jakeuten thanks for the information. What you described Above the Sub-Block chunks is that part of what they call “ Network Slicing “? It is very confusing with all the different statements about DSS that all seem to vary with using both 5G and 4G. This Fiercewireless article that I am quoting below maybe just a simplified capability of 5G but this statement is why I ask since is sounds incredible.

    “ DSS was explained to me this way. Without DSS, an operator that has 20 MHz of mid-band spectrum would have to split that spectrum in two. In other words, they would have to allocate 10 MHz of spectrum to 4G LTE and cram all their LTE users into that 10 MHz of spectrum. Then the remaining 10 MHz of AWS spectrum could be used for 5G, even though initially there will only be a minimal number of 5G users. With DSS, an operator doesn’t have to split that mid-band spectrum or have dedicated spectrum for either 4G LTE or 5G. Instead they can share that 20 MHz of spectrum between the two technologies.“. https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...eployment-game

    There are settings I’m sure, I’m not terribly familiar with how it all works, but that’s how I’ve come to understand it. It makes sense, seeing as NR is flexible in sub carrier spacing, and LTE is limited to 15 KHz. Someone more knowledgeable can chime in if they have more info.

    It isn’t really that incredible though, it is more about marketing. There are no speed improvements with DSS. Having the 5G icon matters to customers though. Hence why a lot of media outlets have been sorta “meh” about T-Mobile 5G in the opposite way of Verizon. Verizon is “WOW, this is fast, but it doesn’t travel enough to be useful.” T-Mobile is “Wow, this is just like LTE, but slightly faster with a shiny 5G icon.”

    Sprint’s implementation of 5G is best in terms of trading between throughput and coverage. Which is to be expected, as midband is the future for the time being. Once T-Mobile, AT&T, and Verizon start heavily rolling out small cells mmW will become more useful, but having the layers of lowband, midband, and mmW are important. Data use is going up exponentially, and eventually midband won’t do the trick in many areas. Urban cores like Chicago need mmW for Verizon, they’re getting congested even with a ton of small cells for LTE. T-Mobile is congested too, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them lighting up mmW down there, especially if the Sprint merger falls through. Although even if it does fall through, remember C-BRS and C-band auctions are coming up and T-Mobile can get their hands on it.

    My expectation (merger feelings aside) is that T-Mobile will merge with Sprint, and AT&T and Verizon will basically get a 50/50 split of C-band. Leaving T-Mobile with 160 MHz of 2.5, and AT&T/Verizon with 140 MHz of C-band.


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,900
    Feedback Score
    0

    My Initial Experience With Low-Band 5G

    So, is 5G on T-Mobile exclusively on Band 71 (600 MHz) or is it Band 71 now and something else in the future?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    15,842
    Device(s)
    Moto G7 Power, Nexus 5X
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, PagePlus
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post
    So, is 5G on T-Mobile exclusively on Band 71 (600 MHz) or is it Band 71 now and something else in the future?
    Future will include low, high (2.5 GHz) & mmBand 5G.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,484
    Device(s)
    S9
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post
    So, is 5G on T-Mobile exclusively on Band 71 (600 MHz) or is it Band 71 now and something else in the future?
    No just like AT&T and Verizon T-Mobile has also got 5G on it’s mmWave in about 6 major cities since July. Atlanta, Cleveland, Dallas, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and New York.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...mwave-spectrum

    The biggest issue currently there is no 5G phone available that supports 5G on both low band and mmWave bands.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,842
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    No just like AT&T and Verizon T-Mobile has also got 5G on it’s mmWave in about 6 major cities since July. Atlanta, Cleveland, Dallas, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and New York.
    But..... mmwave is bad and stupid. Also may be just 6 cities but they bought pretty much nationwide 24 GHz spectrum and bought a bunch of 28 GHz spectrum too. And will likely win some 37/39 and 47 GHz spectrum in the current auction.

    The biggest issue currently there is no 5G phone available that supports 5G on both low band and mmWave bands.
    Which is why NO ONE should be rushing out to get a 5G phone when in few months phones that support ALL bands will be available.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,842
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Without DSS, an operator that has 20 MHz of mid-band spectrum would have to split that spectrum in two. In other words, they would have to allocate 10 MHz of spectrum to 4G LTE and cram all their LTE users into that 10 MHz of spectrum. Then the remaining 10 MHz of AWS spectrum could be used for 5G, even though initially there will only be a minimal number of 5G users.
    Which is EXACTLY what T-Mobile is doing with band 71 and why it sucks. Which is why Verizon is smarter to wait until DSS is rolled out and there are phones that can use it before deploying 5G over low/mid band.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,484
    Device(s)
    S9
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    But..... mmwave is bad and stupid. Also may be just 6 cities but they bought pretty much nationwide 24 GHz spectrum and bought a bunch of 28 GHz spectrum too. And will likely win some 37/39 and 47 GHz spectrum in the current auction.

    .
    Anyone that can watch this video below will see mmWave is useless, unless technology improves reception with mmWave greatly. mmWave doesn’t even work if you are walking down the street. That includes all mmWave including T-Mobile’s mmWave network. That video proves mmWave is useless for Mobile phones. mmWave is far far less useful than I expected at least as cell phone spectrum for coverage before I saw that video. The only thing mmWave is useful for is to standing still on the street, with a direct unobstructed view of the transmitter and run a artificial speed test while you stand there without moving. If a city bus or truck crosses in between you the 5G transmitter, then 5G drops. If it starts raining or snowing it’s gone. If you turn around then your own body degrades the mmWave spectrum. You can’t use it in a car , building, or even walking down the street. It’s only useful application on a cell phone now is uploading or downloading a large movie if you can face the transmitter and not move.

    mmWave May have a use for point to point backhaul between towers if they are line of sight. mmWave May have a use inside a house with a external antenna for fixed wireless home internet service.

    mmWave video https://youtu.be/4PLhxYIDwJs
    Last edited by shilohcane; 12-16-2019 at 05:15 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,484
    Device(s)
    S9
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Which is EXACTLY what T-Mobile is doing with band 71 and why it sucks. Which is why Verizon is smarter to wait until DSS is rolled out and there are phones that can use it before deploying 5G over low/mid band.
    Pretty funny since AT&T is doing the same thing with their 850 MHz low band 5G in only ten cities where T-Mobile has 5G service in several thousands of cities and works in most states. So I guess you agree the overrated and overpriced AT&T sucks even more due to their lack of coverage since T-Mobile massively surpasses AT&T dwarf 5G coverage. Verizon probably doesn’t have the option of freeing up low band spectrum until they upgrade to Stand alone 5G and add DSS. T-Mobile has used it’s Greenfield 600 MHz to stop the state AGs from lying in court that T-Mobile couldn’t or wouldn’t deploy 5G National.

    BTW, it is the old chicken vs the egg debate. Few people are going to buy a 5G phone unless they have 5G spectrum deployed. Having almost nationwide 5g deployed will only speed up T-Mobile customers adopting 5G which makes T-Mobile attract more customers from AT&T and Verizon.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 12-16-2019 at 05:33 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,842
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Anyone that can watch this video below will see mmWave is useless,
    yet T-Mobile is deploying it and will spend over a billion dollars on it.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,842
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Pretty funny since AT&T is doing the same thing with their 850 MHz low band.
    And they are equally stupid.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,484
    Device(s)
    S9
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    And they are equally stupid.
    No it’s not Stupid. 5G Stand Alone will enable a range of new services and simplify network architectures that will make 5G networks more cost effective and increase network speed. Low band 5G even with the Non-Stand-Alone 5G version is a smart idea since it works, unlike that almost useless mmWave stuff where you have to stand outside like a statue without even turning by Facing the unobtrusive mmWave transmitter to make use of it’s weak spectrum physical limits. plus hope a city bus doesn’t drive by to block the mmWave transmitter.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 12-17-2019 at 07:29 PM.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    15,842
    Device(s)
    Moto G7 Power, Nexus 5X
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, PagePlus
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    yet T-Mobile is deploying it and will spend over a billion dollars on it.
    mmWave 5G isn't useless but it has limited utility. Great if you're in a stadium or Time Square when the ball drops: Not such a big deal if you're more than 200' from the antenna or there's anything between you and the antenna.
    Donald Newcomb

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    477
    Feedback Score
    0
    I got to be honest and say I just don't even get the hype about 5G. So you could care less about it to be honest. High speed on Sprint LTE is just fine even though I don't end up using it very much because I'm usually at home we're at my mother's house that also has good Wi-Fi service. I may consume anywhere for 1GB month up to about 5 gigabytes per month.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-25-2019, 02:04 PM
  2. My first experience with Cingular's CSR
    By dcdomain in forum AT&T
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-16-2005, 05:24 PM
  3. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-09-2005, 02:20 PM
  4. My Superbowl Experience with VZW
    By java in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-08-2004, 02:37 PM
  5. My coverage experience with sprint pcs
    By timhorton1998 in forum Sprint
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-16-2003, 09:31 PM

Bookmarks