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Thread: Why is Verizon requiring CDMA phones when it is shutting it down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeuten View Post
    They do activations of non-CDMA phones. OnePlus 6T and OnePlus 7 Pro are great examples.
    You're correct about activations of non-CDMA phones, but the OnePlus phones do have CDMA BC0 and BC1, which is what Verizon uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    It’s not required to use Verizon, but having a CDMA&VoLTE phone will still be an advantage until we get non-Verizon VoLTE roaming.
    It depends. If you look at Verizon's non-CDMA device map, you will see that non-CDMA devices have much better coverage in south Texas and West Virginia because they roam on AT&T HSPA+, but lose coverage from CDMA carriers in other areas. They obviously could technically turn on AT&T roaming for CDMA phones as well, but they don't, so it's either too expensive, or AT&T prohibited them from doing it. It's pretty weird. Maybe someday these carriers will act like adults and all cross-roam with throttled LTE data and VoLTE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    I totally forgot about UMTS roaming for CDMA-less certified devices. I modified your quote to reflect that some locations it might be Commnet (Choice Wireless) or Cellular One (Alta Communications), examples of which have an active LTE agreement and operate both UTMS and CDMA networks.
    West Virginia is definitely AT&T, it shows coverage in areas that only have AT&T coverage.

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    Why is Verizon requiring CDMA phones when it is shutting it down?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    You're correct about activations of non-CDMA phones, but the OnePlus phones do have CDMA BC0 and BC1, which is what Verizon uses.
    OnePlus Support specifically states (read number 3) their 6t, and subsequently the 7 Pro, require “CDMA-less” provisioning in order to work reliably with Verizon. So they are considered the same as any other certified CDMA-less device on Verizon.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    It depends. If you look at Verizon's non-CDMA device map, you will see that non-CDMA devices have much better coverage in south Texas and West Virginia because they roam on AT&T HSPA+, but lose coverage from CDMA carriers in other areas.
    I do understand this. I’m saying it isn’t 100% AT&T roaming, just like CDMA roaming isn’t 100% Sprint or USCC or etc.

    South central Texas roaming coverage, unless it was confirmed directly, could be from West Central Wireless. WCW covers that part of Texas, operate similar UMTS bands as AT&T, and had operated a legacy CDMA network. Verizon did have a roaming agreement with them (for said CDMA network), so it could have carried over to UMTS.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    It's pretty weird. Maybe someday these carriers will act like adults and all cross-roam with throttled LTE data and VoLTE.
    Yes, I agree that carriers should “grow up” and roam together. Sadly, I don’t expect that to happen without government intervention.
    My common forum nick: GenesisDH.

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    1000th post: Sept. 29th, 2008, 17:42 CDT

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    It depends. If you look at Verizon's non-CDMA device map, you will see that non-CDMA devices have much better coverage in south Texas and West Virginia
    CDMA devices do poorly in those areas because Verizon has no 850 MHz spectrum there. Which is what their 1X depends on. Either at&t has both 850 bands or at&t has one and some other carrier( mostly US Cellular ) has the other

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    Quote Originally Posted by IT_Architect View Post
    This is all useful information. Verizon talks about how phones because technically they work, they may not be allowed on their network until they have been proven. I wonder where that list is?
    Verizon allows all phones on their network. It was a condition when they got band 13. The only time they use a whitelist is when activating a new sim card. But you can just take a whitelisted phone, activate the sim with it and then move it to any other device. It will work as long as the phone has LTE bands that Verizon uses. The main problem here is VoLTE support. It depends on if the Verizon flavor of VoLTE is supported by the phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    OnePlus Support specifically states (read number 3) their 6t, and subsequently the 7 Pro, require “CDMA-less” provisioning in order to work reliably with Verizon. So they are considered the same as any other certified CDMA-less device on Verizon.
    That is absolutely bizarre. I wonder how many people just moved their SIM over from an existing phone and are using them on CDMA? Or does the system somehow block them from using CDMA? I'm wondering if OnePlus just didn't want to get the thing certified since the network is getting shut down anyway, so they didn't bother?

    South central Texas roaming coverage, unless it was confirmed directly, could be from West Central Wireless. WCW covers that part of Texas, operate similar UMTS bands as AT&T, and had operated a legacy CDMA network. Verizon did have a roaming agreement with them (for said CDMA network), so it could have carried over to UMTS.Yes, I agree that carriers should “grow up” and roam together. Sadly, I don’t expect that to happen without government intervention.
    It could be WCW in that area, but then why not offer that to CDMA devices as well, even if it's HSPA+ in that area? It just seems weird. They aren't a cellular carrier there, but it baffles me why they don't just put B13 sites up in that area, it would take a dozen or two towers to crayon over that giant hole in their map. You can literally see the thing on screen in TV ads, it's that big.

    Verizon is roaming on AT&T now. You'd think that they would figure out it would be so much cheaper if they took a divide and conquer approach on rural and cross-roamed. Not sure how far they could go with that before there are government antitrust issues, but building competing towers in the middle of nowhere makes no sense. They could do a RAN-sharing agreement, or just straight-up cross roam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    CDMA devices do poorly in those areas because Verizon has no 850 MHz spectrum there. Which is what their 1X depends on. Either at&t has both 850 bands or at&t has one and some other carrier( mostly US Cellular ) has the other
    Sprint does way better than Verizon in WV. Yes, that's why historically Verizon had very little presence there, but now they have B13 for LTE, and they still haven't done anything about their mess there. It's probably not worth the investment, so they should stop screwing their customers and just sign an agreement for USCC LTE there. Same with AT&T in parts of Iowa and Wisconsin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    That is absolutely bizarre. I wonder how many people just moved their SIM over from an existing phone and are using them on CDMA? Or does the system somehow block them from using CDMA? I'm wondering if OnePlus just didn't want to get the thing certified since the network is getting shut down anyway, so they didn't bother?



    It could be WCW in that area, but then why not offer that to CDMA devices as well, even if it's HSPA+ in that area? It just seems weird. They aren't a cellular carrier there, but it baffles me why they don't just put B13 sites up in that area, it would take a dozen or two towers to crayon over that giant hole in their map. You can literally see the thing on screen in TV ads, it's that big.

    Verizon is roaming on AT&T now. You'd think that they would figure out it would be so much cheaper if they took a divide and conquer approach on rural and cross-roamed. Not sure how far they could go with that before there are government antitrust issues, but building competing towers in the middle of nowhere makes no sense. They could do a RAN-sharing agreement, or just straight-up cross roam.



    Sprint does way better than Verizon in WV. Yes, that's why historically Verizon had very little presence there, but now they have B13 for LTE, and they still haven't done anything about their mess there. It's probably not worth the investment, so they should stop screwing their customers and just sign an agreement for USCC LTE there. Same with AT&T in parts of Iowa and Wisconsin.
    Band 13 only helps with voice if one is using VoLTE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Band 13 only helps with voice if one is using VoLTE
    So in case you've been living under a rock for about the last 5 years, Verizon hasn't built sites with CDMA since about 5 years ago, maybe even a bit longer, most of their phones are running on VoLTE, and CDMA is shutting down soonish.

    In WV, they could have done LTE as soon as they got B13, and used PCS and/or USCC roaming for voice until VoLTE was up and running. Heck, they could just pay Sprint for roaming. It's the one place where Sprint blows Verizon out of the water. What a weird market.

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    It’s going to be interesting when Verizon kills off cdma...it will be the only network with no backup. For example, let’s say I’m on T-Mobile and there is an LTE outage in the area.. phone will just switch over to UMTS 3G/4G non LTE signal. Soon Verizon to put all eggs in one basket... if the network has an LTE issue phone = No Service.

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    Why is Verizon requiring CDMA phones when it is shutting it down?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-MOBILE GSM View Post
    It’s going to be interesting when Verizon kills off cdma...it will be the only network with no backup. For example, let’s say I’m on T-Mobile and there is an LTE outage in the area.. phone will just switch over to UMTS 3G/4G non LTE signal. Soon Verizon to put all eggs in one basket... if the network has an LTE issue phone = No Service.
    On the other hand, having a backup network means nothing if both networks use the same backend/backhaul.
    T-Mobile has had widespread backhaul outages before, regardless of LTE/3G/GSM signal. Some of the outages were widespread enough that they were considered nationwide. Verizon also has had similar outages.

    A more realistic “backup plan” would be having an in-market roaming partner with its own backhaul and towers. No nationwide carrier does in-market roaming extensively because it is an out-of-pocket expense.

    In an emergency, we have seen Verizon allow their phones to roam on other carrier networks. I personally recall this happening after the May 2013 tornado outbreak near Moore, Oklahoma. It’s uncommon but they can certainly make it happen if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    So in case you've been living under a rock for about the last 5 years, Verizon hasn't built sites with CDMA since about 5 years ago, maybe even a bit longer, most of their phones are running on VoLTE, and CDMA is shutting down soonish.

    In WV, they could have done LTE as soon as they got B13, and used PCS and/or USCC roaming for voice until VoLTE was up and running. Heck, they could just pay Sprint for roaming. It's the one place where Sprint blows Verizon out of the water. What a weird market.
    So any particular reason you are being an ***? Obviously reading comprehension is not a skill set you posses.

    "In WV, they could have done LTE as soon as they got B13,"

    Band 13 has been pretty much nationwide for 5 years now. Longer in some places. VoLTE just as long. Even now million of devices still depend on CDMA and certainly 5 years ago that number was in the tens of millions. So in areas where Verizon doesn't have any 850 having VoLTE enabled doesn't really help much for those that up until now don't have VoLTE devices. Obviously after Dec 31st it won't matter. And I'm sure WV has had band 13 and VoLTE available for several years so I don't know WTF you are talking about when you say "In WV, they could have done LTE as soon as they got B13"

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-MOBILE GSM View Post
    It’s going to be interesting when Verizon kills off cdma...it will be the only network with no backup. For example, let’s say I’m on T-Mobile and there is an LTE outage in the area.. phone will just switch over to UMTS 3G/4G non LTE signal. Soon Verizon to put all eggs in one basket... if the network has an LTE issue phone = No Service.
    Much of T-Mobile's network is LTE-only. AT&T is eventually going to kill off WCDMA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    In an emergency, we have seen Verizon allow their phones to roam on other carrier networks. I personally recall this happening after the May 2013 tornado outbreak near Moore, Oklahoma. It’s uncommon but they can certainly make it happen if needed.
    AT&T and T-Mobile did it after one of the big hurricanes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    So any particular reason you are being an ***? Obviously reading comprehension is not a skill set you posses.
    I'm not. You're just throw up barriers that don't exist to Verizon filling in that giant hole on their map.

    Band 13 has been pretty much nationwide for 5 years now. Longer in some places. VoLTE just as long. Even now million of devices still depend on CDMA and certainly 5 years ago that number was in the tens of millions. So in areas where Verizon doesn't have any 850 having VoLTE enabled doesn't really help much for those that up until now don't have VoLTE devices. Obviously after Dec 31st it won't matter. And I'm sure WV has had band 13 and VoLTE available for several years so I don't know WTF you are talking about when you say "In WV, they could have done LTE as soon as they got B13"
    Again, in case you've been living under a rock, Verizon has been building out LTE-only coverage for years now. Phones without LTE have less coverage. That's the trade-off of having an ancient phone. And it's an artificial barrier that you invented anyway, as they could have used PCS CDMA and/or USCC roaming CDMA. They had Wireless Partners LLC build out B13 LTEiRA in Downeast Maine where they are not a cellular carrier, and also retained roaming with USCC for CDMA/1x. Either that, or just pay Sprint or USCC for LTE roaming and be done with it. Considering how much Sprint pays Verizon every year for roaming, getting some going the other way should have been trivial for Verizon.

    Look at a MAP. Verizon doesn't have ANY coverage in a good chunk of the state where AT&T, Sprint, and USCC *DO*. Then there's the NRQZ where no one has coverage.

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