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Thread: DOJ mulls 4th carrier as condition of Sprint/T-Mobile merger approval

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    DOJ mulls 4th carrier as condition of Sprint/T-Mobile merger approval

    " Bloomberg reported that officials at the U.S. Department of Justice want T-Mobile and Sprint to spin out a fourth wireless carrier as a condition for approving the proposed merger between the two.

    Citing unnamed officials within the DOJ, Bloomberg reported the DOJ is concerned about the competitive effects the merger will have on the wireless market in the U.S. If approved, the merger would reduce the number of nationwide wireless carriers from four to three: (new) T-Mobile, Verizon and AT&T. "


    DOJ mulls 4th carrier as condition of Sprint/T-Mobile merger approval



    Time to kill the merger deal between Sprint and T-Mobile if this is the DOJ's ridiculous requirement for approval. To build out a new nationwide network it would cost more than the $26 Billion T-Mobile is paying for Sprint. AT&T and Verizon have over 70% of all wireless customers and over 90% of the revenue from all networks. There isn't enough customers left outside the Top 3 Networks to create a 4th network since both AT&T and Verizon are too big of a monopoly now. What the DOJ should do is break up both AT&T and Verizon and create a 4th Network to break up the monopoly.

    Just let Sprint declare Chapter 7 or chapter 13 bankruptcy. Fire all the Sprint workers and most of the Sprint Spectrum will be given to the banks that gave loans on that spectrum.

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    Tmobile should sue DOJ. While I don't believe this is a true condition and mere someone said this though my uncle whose wife has a niece that works as a janitor at DOJ. If true, tmobile can sue the pants off DOJ for this considering the position Dish, Verizon and ATT is in. I just don't buy this as the condition, this whole spin off 4th carrier seems like big giant click bait FUD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L33 View Post
    Tmobile should sue DOJ. While I don't believe this is a true condition and mere someone said this though my uncle whose wife has a niece that works as a janitor at DOJ. If true, tmobile can sue the pants off DOJ for this considering the position Dish, Verizon and ATT is in. I just don't buy this as the condition, this whole spin off 4th carrier seems like big giant click bait FUD.
    I hope you are right that this is just Fakenews. Someone tell me why US Cellular, Cspire, Charter Communication or Comcast hasn't got the DOJ's support for becoming the 4th national network... Really if Sprint & T-Mobile merger was approved does anyone think a new 4th Nationwide Network would be successful to replace Sprint ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    I hope you are right that this is just Fakenews. Someone tell me why US Cellular, Cspire, Charter Communication or Comcast hasn't got the DOJ's support for becoming the 4th national network... Really if Sprint & T-Mobile merger was approved does anyone think a new 4th Nationwide Network would be successful to replace Sprint ?
    Think about it. Who is going to back it? Where is the spectrum going to come from? Who is going to fund the network? What is the 10 year expansion strategy? These are all important questions. If DOJ were to drop this on tmobile without asking any of those things then the writing on the wall is clear, they want the merger to fail. Thats fine, lawsuit time.

    Hence why I don't believe any of this fud. Any sane regulator would make further conditions on top of that which we would hear about already if it were to be true. But we haven't heard anything but 4th carrier condition.

    From what I'm seeing, boost will be sold. That's it. Merger will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    I hope you are right that this is just Fakenews. Someone tell me why US Cellular, Cspire, Charter Communication or Comcast hasn't got the DOJ's support for becoming the 4th national network... Really if Sprint & T-Mobile merger was approved does anyone think a new 4th Nationwide Network would be successful to replace Sprint ?
    Unless all of them combined their wireless holdings into a joint venture like Cingular, I highly doubt any of the ones you listed have the resources to build a forth national network. US Cellular, which is next largest carrier, has a lot smaller footprint (including the King Street Wireless holdings) and is only has 10% of the subscribers that Sprint has. They would need a lot more revenue or the ability to buy spectrum cheap to get a national network going.

    Unless New T-Mobile has to divest some nationwide spectrum, I believe it will require multiple companies merging or a joint venture to create a new forth national network.

    And to my understanding Charter and Comcast both sold most of their wireless spectrum to Verizon, doing so they gained an MVNO reseller contract. Cox did the same but they no longer offer wireless service as part of its offerings. That said, these contracts take out three big players already.
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    If the DOJ doesn't get serious concessions then some states will just sue to block the merger. If the DOJ signs off on the merger w/o getting any real, tangible concessions, the states will sue. Tmobile and Sprint need to make some serious concessions in order for all this to pass. Selling Boost won't cut it, not by a long shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    And to my understanding Charter and Comcast both sold most of their wireless spectrum to Verizon, doing so they gained an MVNO reseller contract. Cox did the same but they no longer offer wireless service as part of its offerings. That said, these contracts take out three big players already.
    I haven't heard about Verizon buying Comcast 600 Mhz they purchased in the FCC 600 Mhz Auction and this is the map of their spectrum.

    Comcast and Charter have a hot spot network that covers 70% of their customers data and voice needs with over a million customers combined. Comcast is bigger than Cspire now. The other 30% of their customer needs is as a MVNO of Verizon. They are a real network and at least Comcast has some spectrum.

    Both Comcast and Charter turned down buying Sprint since they obviously don't think a fourth national network is a viable profitable option. If Comcast/Charter won't buy Sprint or US Cellular and or DISH Network then it is because there isn't any opportunity for a 4th National Network. Just wait for Sprint to go bankrupt and then T-Mobile and others can buy up their spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qt0 View Post
    If the DOJ doesn't get serious concessions then some states will just sue to block the merger. If the DOJ signs off on the merger w/o getting any real, tangible concessions, the states will sue. Tmobile and Sprint need to make some serious concessions in order for all this to pass. Selling Boost won't cut it, not by a long shot.
    States suing to block the merger isn't going to do much if its approved on the federal level. There is only two states that came out against the merger.

    Selling off boost is a pretty serious concession as it makes sprint pretty good income. Whats left is pretty reasonable, considering the two massive gorillas in the market this new company will try to compete with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qt0 View Post
    If the DOJ doesn't get serious concessions then some states will just sue to block the merger. If the DOJ signs off on the merger w/o getting any real, tangible concessions, the states will sue. Tmobile and Sprint need to make some serious concessions in order for all this to pass. Selling Boost won't cut it, not by a long shot.
    Easy to fix. Just play hardball and don't use Sprint's spectrum in those areas as T-Mobile continues service. Suspend all of Sprint's services in those states. Fire all the Sprint employees in their areas and they will drop their case since they won't have the right to sue if Sprint's assets were not used in their states. If that doesn't work suspend all T-Mobile and Sprint's services and blame the state for not allowing them to provide service to their customers. What are they going to do prevent T-Mobile from doing business in their state which would only leave AT&T and Verizon ? If they think three networks aren't enough they are really not going to like just two networks.

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    DOJ mulls 4th carrier as condition of Sprint/T-Mobile merger approval

    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    I haven't heard about Verizon buying Comcast 600 Mhz they purchased in the FCC 600 Mhz Auction and this is the map of their spectrum.

    Comcast and Charter have a hot spot network that covers 70% of their customers data and voice needs with over a million customers combined. Comcast is bigger than Cspire now. The other 30% of their customer needs is as a MVNO of Verizon. They are a real network and at least Comcast has some spectrum. Both Comcast and Charter turned down buying Sprint since they obviously don't think a fourth national network is a viable profitable option. If they won't buy US Cellular and or DISH Network then it is because there isn't any opportunity for a 4th National Network. Just wait for Sprint to go bankrupt and then T-Mobile and others can buy up their spectrum.
    I was more referring to the AWS spectrum, but even the 600MHz spectrum Comcast is barely above USCC in cellular footprint. Where they bought spectrum seems to indicate a plan to use it for Fixed Wireless Internet rather than cellular phone service.

    Hotspot coverage means little for those using cellular service on the road. Look at Google Fi; their calls and data work pretty well on WiFi but they tend to rely on their cellular partners a lot for voice and data. Even if Comcast deployed WiFi towers at every utility pole in their service areas, they will still need more spectrum to help provide roadside and intercity coverage.

    My main point is that their MVNO contract with Verizon will keep them from starting a new competing network quickly. It would take time and resources for them to get out of that contract and start a new venture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    I was more referring to the AWS spectrum, but even the 600MHz spectrum Comcast is barely above USCC in cellular footprint. Where they bought spectrum seems to indicate a plan to use it for Fixed Wireless Internet rather than cellular phone service.

    Hotspot coverage means little for those using cellular service on the road. Look at Google Fi; their calls and data work pretty well on WiFi but they tend to rely on their cellular partners a lot for voice and data. Even if Comcast deployed WiFi towers at every utility pole in their service areas, they will still need more spectrum to help provide roadside and intercity coverage.

    My main point is that their MVNO contract with Verizon will keep them from starting a new competing network quickly. It would take time and resources for them to get out of that contract and start a new venture.
    No way 5x5 of Comcast's 600 Mhz spectrum could be used for Fixed Wireless. Way too thin amount of bandwidth that 4K HDTV would eat alive.

    In Comcast's case over 80% of their customers calls and data is via their Hotsports with over a million hot-spots and growing. So Comcast can't resell Verizon's roaming but Comcast sure could get MVNO under their Hotspots since it is a real network. I have Comcast Xfinity at home and enable on my phone and was making WiFi calls on my T-Mobile phone over Comcast Hotspots driving around the city.

    My point is Comcast has more customers than Cspire that makes them the 5th largest network in the nations. In about 4 years they will be bigger than US Cellular that has about 5 million customers making them the 4th largest network.

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    So So stupid. DOJ stop telling TM/Sprint you're washing your hair. Just tell them you're not going to go out with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    " Bloomberg reported that officials at the U.S. Department of Justice want T-Mobile and Sprint to spin out a fourth wireless carrier as a condition for approving the proposed merger between the two.

    Citing unnamed officials within the DOJ, Bloomberg reported the DOJ is concerned about the competitive effects the merger will have on the wireless market in the U.S. If approved, the merger would reduce the number of nationwide wireless carriers from four to three: (new) T-Mobile, Verizon and AT&T. "


    DOJ mulls 4th carrier as condition of Sprint/T-Mobile merger approval



    Time to kill the merger deal between Sprint and T-Mobile if this is the DOJ's ridiculous requirement for approval. To build out a new nationwide network it would cost more than the $26 Billion T-Mobile is paying for Sprint. AT&T and Verizon have over 70% of all wireless customers and over 90% of the revenue from all networks. There isn't enough customers left outside the Top 3 Networks to create a 4th network since both AT&T and Verizon are too big of a monopoly now. What the DOJ should do is break up both AT&T and Verizon and create a 4th Network to break up the monopoly.

    Just let Sprint declare Chapter 7 or chapter 13 bankruptcy. Fire all the Sprint workers and most of the Sprint Spectrum will be given to the banks that gave loans on that spectrum.
    I'd watch out spouting common sense like that around here Shilohcane. You mention Sprint needs to go the way of the dodo with a chapter 7 and some people come out frothing at the mouth to defend that company's continued existence.

    I would be so happy if this turns out to be true, it kills this abomination of a merger. I already recently left Tmo for becoming another carrier; merging with Sprint in this fashion is just more of that. I guess it was good disruption while it lasted but all things must end.

    I hope that treasure trove of spectrum Sprint sits on gets to be put to actual use. Everyone here complaining building out a 4th carrier again wouldn't fix anything or it'd be the same old same old - stop. Look at Tmobile as the perfect example against that. They were down and out and they were smaller than Sprint and during their attempted buy-out with ATT they did NOTHING. Tmobile got some band 4, went to town on LTE, grew by millions each quarter for years, and sat at the big boy's table on spectrum auctions.

    Spring did NOTHING like that yet had all the resources. They have insane revenue yet STILL post a loss. They have more spectrum than any other major carrier. They may lack in lowband, but they at least have almost nationwide SMR and had opportunity to purchase 700 or 600 at the respective auctions and didn't. Also sat out the AWS auction too, which I'd say they have enough mid and high band, but given the 1 year free plan I have been trying, it parks on band 25 and the speeds are close to 2G most days.

    So, Sprint's problem are the many things that kept Tmobile back! It's the management. Fire everyone who isn't an hourly employee. Hold Son and SB accountable to all the lies they spread and complete lack of developing critical infrastructure. In fact, I'd say bring a lawsuit against Sprint, the opposite of my fellow poster below:

    Quote Originally Posted by L33 View Post
    Tmobile should sue DOJ. While I don't believe this is a true condition and mere someone said this though my uncle whose wife has a niece that works as a janitor at DOJ. If true, tmobile can sue the pants off DOJ for this considering the position Dish, Verizon and ATT is in. I just don't buy this as the condition, this whole spin off 4th carrier seems like big giant click bait FUD.
    Quote Originally Posted by L33 View Post
    Think about it. Who is going to back it? Where is the spectrum going to come from? Who is going to fund the network? What is the 10 year expansion strategy? These are all important questions. If DOJ were to drop this on tmobile without asking any of those things then the writing on the wall is clear, they want the merger to fail. Thats fine, lawsuit time.

    Hence why I don't believe any of this fud. Any sane regulator would make further conditions on top of that which we would hear about already if it were to be true. But we haven't heard anything but 4th carrier condition.

    From what I'm seeing, boost will be sold. That's it. Merger will happen.
    I don't know if business and mergers work the way you think they work. Also sue based on what? What do ATT, Dish, or VZW have to do with this? Sue them, even ATT walked off knowing full well that's an incredibly losing idea.

    What's the lawsuit based on? "The meanie government won't let us merge critical, publicly owned assets/utilities into the single largest trove of them that one of the 2 companies already squanders and the fact this marches a vital industry every closer to a oligopoly that we already pretend it isn't. HUFF"

    Does the accompanying foot stomp or crossed arms go before or after the petulant whining this would be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphling27 View Post


    What's the lawsuit based on? "The meanie government won't let us merge critical, publicly owned assets/utilities into the single largest trove of them that one of the 2 companies already squanders and the fact this marches a vital industry every closer to a oligopoly that we already pretend it isn't. HUFF"
    Yes, one can sue the government for not permitting a merger. AT&T just did it and won.

    T-Mobile can do the same.

    But the question can be asked what would your lawsuit be based upon:

    "In fact, I'd say bring a lawsuit against Sprint"

    There is nothing you could sue Spirnt about. Your claim that they tell "lies" or that they don't develop their assets is not a violation of anything. There is no grounds to sue them because you don't like how they run the company. You've been advocating this action for a long time now, but it's based upon some imaginary law that only exists in your mind.

    The correct action if the DOJ is concerned about an oligopoly is to breakup AT&T and or Verizon to add competitors. Not make the fourth company come from T-mobile & Sprint.

    But don't kid yourself, AT&T and Verizon are working behind the scenes to torpedo this deal. They don't want T-mobile to become a serious competitor to them and they know if they block this deal, their lofty positions will be retained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post



    The correct action if the DOJ is concerned about an oligopoly is to breakup AT&T and or Verizon to add competitors. Not make the fourth company come from T-mobile & Sprint.

    But don't kid yourself, AT&T and Verizon are working behind the scenes to torpedo this deal. They don't want T-mobile to become a serious competitor to them and they know if they block this deal, their lofty positions will be retained.
    100% correct... AT&T and Verizon need to be split up to form a 4th Network that would be ranked #3 as T-Mobile drops to #4 without a merger with Sprint. Also agree that both AT&T and Verizon lobbyists are behind blocking this merger. The White House and Trump are for the merger to accelerate 5G NR and the current DOJ in the Anti- Trust group are left over from the previous administration and part of the Swamp.

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