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Thread: Does Verizon have a serious congestion issue?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInPa View Post
    I also wonder if AT&T is afraid to “Crank up” the power of some of its lower RF bands. Even in areas where Verizon and AT&T are co-located on the same site AT&T will still drop to 4G or loose service in building before Verizon. I wonder if it’s an interface issue since AT&T throws up so much spectrum on a tower as compared to Verizon.

    Although I’m just as guilty with this myself by relying on bars as an indication of speed/quality of a connection but that isn’t necessarily true. Maybe the reason for me I see Verizon have 3-4 bars indoors Vs AT&T 1-2 bars could be because AT&T will keep you on band 2-4as your primary band until you have no choice where Verizon May direct you to band 13 earlier then camping on band 4. With both carriers because of CA I can still get speeds over 30 Mbps with just 1 bar of service.


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo
    usually for me, when AT&T is going between 1-2 bars, i'm on B17/14 and my speeds are not the best but are still functional - usually
    Left: Verizon Unlimited LTE, Right: WideOpenWest 500/50

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    I'm on a postpaid (30GB/month) plan and severe congestion has certainly hit in my mountainous area in the past month (zip code 88312) where Verizon tends to have bands 4, 13, 66 deployed. Data service has practically been unusable / unavailable in large swaths of the area every Friday through Sunday -- and a few hours here and there through the week -- where voice service seems to otherwise be unaffected. A fellow I know in real estate is telling me that he is experiencing & hearing tons of complaints throughout the area.

    I spoke with level 2 tech support and they confirmed congestion complaints but that it would do no good to open a trouble ticket since it would just come back as "congestion". They also didn't think that any work related to the CDMA sunset might be causing the severe congestion, but I wonder: this type of congestion has never happened over the past 8 years, where bands 4 was made available around 3 years ago, and band 66 sometime last year.

    Is it pointless to pursue trouble tickets? Or escalate above level 2 tech support? Certainly they're aware of the issue, and maybe there isn't much they can do....

    AT&T has generally been awful in my area & the tower I use. Last weekend I signed up for $50 30-day 10GB prepaid data plan and am using their band 66 and getting 5-10Mbps/down and 1-2Mbps/up when Verizon is totally DOA. When Verizon is working I tend to hit 25-30Mbps down and 5-7Mbps/up generally with CA across bands 13 & 66 usually, though sometimes I lock my EM7565 onto band 4 and basically get the same. I work from home, and this is my only option apart from satellite, but at least I now have a backup that works when VZ is out (for now).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmec View Post
    I'm on a postpaid (30GB/month) plan and severe congestion has certainly hit in my mountainous area in the past month (zip code 88312) where Verizon tends to have bands 4, 13, 66 deployed. Data service has practically been unusable / unavailable in large swaths of the area every Friday through Sunday -- and a few hours here and there through the week -- where voice service seems to otherwise be unaffected. A fellow I know in real estate is telling me that he is experiencing & hearing tons of complaints throughout the area.

    I spoke with level 2 tech support and they confirmed congestion complaints but that it would do no good to open a trouble ticket since it would just come back as "congestion". They also didn't think that any work related to the CDMA sunset might be causing the severe congestion, but I wonder: this type of congestion has never happened over the past 8 years, where bands 4 was made available around 3 years ago, and band 66 sometime last year.

    Is it pointless to pursue trouble tickets? Or escalate above level 2 tech support? Certainly they're aware of the issue, and maybe there isn't much they can do....

    AT&T has generally been awful in my area & the tower I use. Last weekend I signed up for $50 30-day 10GB prepaid data plan and am using their band 66 and getting 5-10Mbps/down and 1-2Mbps/up when Verizon is totally DOA. When Verizon is working I tend to hit 25-30Mbps down and 5-7Mbps/up generally with CA across bands 13 & 66 usually, though sometimes I lock my EM7565 onto band 4 and basically get the same. I work from home, and this is my only option apart from satellite, but at least I now have a backup that works when VZ is out (for now).
    I assume that $65 unlimited LTE plan put more strain on the rural networks than verizon had accounted for, thus the reason for the quick sunset.

    I had it for a few months, but it was so low on the totem pole it was practically useless in hotels so i canned the account myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    I assume that $65 unlimited LTE plan put more strain on the rural networks than verizon had accounted for, thus the reason for the quick sunset.

    I had it for a few months, but it was so low on the totem pole it was practically useless in hotels so i canned the account myself.
    I thought it was a little odd that they offered that plan. At least at that price. Maybe they wanted to test the waters. In the rural county my parents live in, verizon has widely spaced towers, most of which are band 13 only, and many of which are microwave backhauled. My parents have used a jetpack for years as their primary internet source. It gets on average about 2mbps down during the day and evening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candygoblin View Post
    I thought it was a little odd that they offered that plan. At least at that price. Maybe they wanted to test the waters. In the rural county my parents live in, verizon has widely spaced towers, most of which are band 13 only, and many of which are microwave backhauled. My parents have used a jetpack for years as their primary internet source. It gets on average about 2mbps down during the day and evening.
    Yeah, when traveling around. Verizon has been sitting low on speeds as well. My pages normally load fine but to do any major downloads i've had to swap to the AT&T line a good chunk of times.

    AT&T, i do have to say since getting that FirstNet contract has been on a roll with densifying and utilizing their additional spectrum holdings wisely. I do say in building service overall seems to be a bit more "weak" with at&t but speeds overall have been better when out and about.

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    Well this answers the thread. AT&T got number one for the fastest network in U.S.

    https://www.pcmag.com/article/368941...-networks-2019


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonavillicana View Post
    Well this answers the thread. AT&T got number one for the fastest network in U.S.

    https://www.pcmag.com/article/368941...-networks-2019
    Nice. I read everything except the tests for individual cities. The take-away for me is that none of the providers are sitting still. Major kudos were given to T-Mobile even though they always tailed AT&T and Verizon. Even Sprint is trying to improve, but who knows if they'll be able to have the stamina to keep pace unless the merger with T-Mobile goes through.

    --Kidd
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    Wireless data use in the US.

    Haven't seen this graph for a while, kinda puts congestion in perspective.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonavillicana View Post
    Well this answers the thread. AT&T got number one for the fastest network in U.S.

    https://www.pcmag.com/article/368941...-networks-2019


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well, AT&T getting that FirstNet contract is forcing them to densify to have the coverage the government demands, and this tests show that the work is actually getting done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    Well, AT&T getting that FirstNet contract is forcing them to densify to have the coverage the government demands, and this tests show that the work is actually getting done.
    In some rural areas, but these tests reflect T's generally denser macro grid before combined with a lot of spectrum.

  11. #56
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    Even Sprint is trying to improve, but who knows if they'll be able to have the stamina to keep pace unless the merger with T-Mobile goes through.
    I do wonder about Sprint's future -- Verizon Wireless plans to drop CDMA end of year. I would not be surprised to find Verizon giving technical assistance to LTEiRA partners to make sure they have VoLTE going sooner or later (so they could keep running CDMA for existing devices and roaming, but would not need CDMA in new phones either). US Cellular (#3 CDMA carrier) says they plan on VoLTE rollout completed by end of 2020 (surprising because it looks like they have the LTE itself all rolled out.) So really Sprint has to have their LTE rollout finished *and* VoLTE going by 2021 or so or they may be very limited in phone selection; who all is going to want to make a 1-off CDMA-supporting model for 1 carrier?

    This has happened in the past (to a few small carriers); there were several carriers picked up by AT&T and Verizon Wireless about 10 years ago who were still running TDMA, selling NOS (New Old Stock) 5+ year old Nokia candybar phones and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Funny you should mention it, in my travels through Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Missouri, Arkansas, and Louisiana... I haven't been out to Pennsylvania in a few years, but at the time it stood out in terms of having the 4G not really match the range of the 3G/1x. Most other markets I've been to, when you lose 4G the 3G/1x is not actually usable either (at which point it hopefully switches to roaming, but all to often does not.)

    As far as I know, VZW buys switches, base stations, radios etc. from 2 or 3 different vendors, and operates their network in regions (some of these regions roughly match the service area of the original companies that formed Verizon like Bell Atlantic Mobile etc., and larger purchased companies like Alltel...) So maybe it's an equipment difference, or maybe one of these regions decided to tune things differently. I suppose if it's some antenna issue (like the 700mhz antennas ended up placed lower than the existing 850s or something...) that once they have lte on 850 it'd take care of that. Hopefully it's sorted out network-wide before CDMA shutdown
    CDMA, at least 1x, and lesser EV, both have better reach than LTE. Without getting into an in-depth air path discussion, it isn’t quite a 1:1 translation. Coverage will be lost after 1x is shut off. More cells will eventually fill the holes, hopefully. A pity the tech has been shunned because carriers were tired of patent costs for something amazing that works through space and time and exchanged it for 1960s satellite comms tech.

    As a personal science experiment about the air path tech in the real world, if you live in an area where T-Mobile and Sprint have cells colocated and you have access to a google pixel and the Fi service with debug apps installed, you can play with how the various techs work on various bands. 1x will always win, EV second place, LTE 3rd. This also has to be in a market where your frequency bands and line of sight to the cell are fairly close to validate obv. Comparing 2500MHz LTE to 800MHz 1x would be a farce, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    I do wonder about Sprint's future -- Verizon Wireless plans to drop CDMA end of year. I would not be surprised to find Verizon giving technical assistance to LTEiRA partners to make sure they have VoLTE going sooner or later (so they could keep running CDMA for existing devices and roaming, but would not need CDMA in new phones either). US Cellular (#3 CDMA carrier) says they plan on VoLTE rollout completed by end of 2020 (surprising because it looks like they have the LTE itself all rolled out.) So really Sprint has to have their LTE rollout finished *and* VoLTE going by 2021 or so or they may be very limited in phone selection; who all is going to want to make a 1-off CDMA-supporting model for 1 carrier?
    LTEiRA partners are already running VoLTE. If you look at the map for non-CDMA devices, all the LTEiRA partners are on there. The problem that USCC and Sprint have is that their LTE networks can't replace their CDMA networks in their current state. Sprint's tower grid isn't dense enough in a lot of suburban areas, and USCC covers some extremely rural areas where CDMA reaches much farther than LTE, so all the VoLTE in the world won't help those areas. USCC may be the last bastion for CDMA, but eventually no on is going to want to make CDMA-capable phones for them, unless Qualcomm just bundles it into their radios well into the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skuzz View Post
    CDMA, at least 1x, and lesser EV, both have better reach than LTE. Without getting into an in-depth air path discussion, it isn’t quite a 1:1 translation. Coverage will be lost after 1x is shut off. More cells will eventually fill the holes, hopefully.
    Some very rural areas that today have CDMA/1x or WCDMA coverage will just lose coverage and never get it back. That's the unfortunate reality. On the one hand, would we want carriers running AMPS gear today for the range? It's incredibly expensive to maintain old stuff, but on the other hand, some areas that had rock solid AMPS have never gotten any wireless service back. The same thing will happen with CDMA/1x and WCDMA.

    It's a complicated picture, as some rural areas are getting faster data connectivity where, in many cases, there is no wired broadband, but on the other hand, some areas will be losing voice/text coverage entirely. Meanwhile, urban areas are more connected than ever, with a system of macros, small sites, and DAS-type installations providing nearly ubiquitous coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    LTEiRA partners are already running VoLTE. If you look at the map for non-CDMA devices, all the LTEiRA partners are on there. The problem that USCC and Sprint have is that their LTE networks can't replace their CDMA networks in their current state. Sprint's tower grid isn't dense enough in a lot of suburban areas, and USCC covers some extremely rural areas where CDMA reaches much farther than LTE, so all the VoLTE in the world won't help those areas. USCC may be the last bastion for CDMA, but eventually no on is going to want to make CDMA-capable phones for them, unless Qualcomm just bundles it into their radios well into the future.



    Some very rural areas that today have CDMA/1x or WCDMA coverage will just lose coverage and never get it back. That's the unfortunate reality. On the one hand, would we want carriers running AMPS gear today for the range? It's incredibly expensive to maintain old stuff, but on the other hand, some areas that had rock solid AMPS have never gotten any wireless service back. The same thing will happen with CDMA/1x and WCDMA.

    It's a complicated picture, as some rural areas are getting faster data connectivity where, in many cases, there is no wired broadband, but on the other hand, some areas will be losing voice/text coverage entirely. Meanwhile, urban areas are more connected than ever, with a system of macros, small sites, and DAS-type installations providing nearly ubiquitous coverage.
    Thing is, on 850MHz, running a small chunk of AMPS or 1x would not even hinder the LTE roll out, as it would just be essentially in the LTE guard band anyway.. Just as T-Mobile does with GSM/EDGE in PCS. It's in a small 200khz chunks on not much capacity, but is there for extended and desperate coverage situations when needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    Thing is, on 850MHz, running a small chunk of AMPS or 1x would not even hinder the LTE roll out, as it would just be essentially in the LTE guard band anyway.. Just as T-Mobile does with GSM/EDGE in PCS. It's in a small 200khz chunks on not much capacity, but is there for extended and desperate coverage situations when needed.
    And older Connected Devices (security alarms, etc)

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