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Thread: 3G emergency phones

  1. #61
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    You're conflating the value of the emergency services, which I agree are a good thing, with someone advocating for a billion dollar overhaul of the E911 system just to provide more precise location data.

    My point is that what we have is good enough. We don't need to go spending more money we don't have on things we don't need. We already live in the safest period of time in recorded human history. How much safer do we really need to be? And how much more of everyone else's money will it take before people who are afraid of their own shadow feel that they are adequately protected by the government.

    As someone said above: "So YES it IS the governments job to ensure my safety", that's literally what people believe, and that's why they're so scared. Because it'll never be enough when your mindset is that it's someone else's job to make sure you're safe. When you have the mindset that it's YOUR responsibility for your own safety, you learn to understand why at some point you have to stop worrying about the "what if" because there is a declining return on your investment after some point, and it's just a waste.

    But the fact remains, it's the emergency services job to deal with the **** AFTER it's hit the fan, and it's better to prepare and take care of yourself to minimize the risk of needing them at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    Agreed. There has to be a way to fix this quickly and permanently.
    It won't be cheap, fast or simple. Someone will have to pay for it since it hasn't been funded properly over several years. Most folks are not going to willingly pay more taxes unless they are forced to by the government.
    Don't make me turn this car around.....

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by veriztd View Post
    It won't be cheap, fast or simple. Someone will have to pay for it since it hasn't been funded properly over several years. Most folks are not going to willingly pay more taxes unless they are forced to by the government.
    Unfortunately we also have states like NY that have been reallocating 911 taxes for “general” state funding as well. That’s unacceptable considering how many PSAPs could have been upgraded to NG911 with the funding that was taken away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by veriztd View Post
    It won't be cheap, fast or simple. Someone will have to pay for it since it hasn't been funded properly over several years. Most folks are not going to willingly pay more taxes unless they are forced to by the government.
    My state( TN ) the 911 tax is $1.16 per lie per month regardless of phone type. I don' think it would be out of order to assume 1 phone per person when you take into account cell phones POOTs lines, VoIP line business lines etc ect. My state has 6.7 million people. That's $90-$100 million per year. in 911 fees. They shouldn't have to raise taxes to have a properly functioning 911 system for 6.7 million people with nearly $100 mil.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    My state( TN ) the 911 tax is $1.16 per lie per month regardless of phone type. I don' think it would be out of order to assume 1 phone per person when you take into account cell phones POOTs lines, VoIP line business lines etc ect. My state has 6.7 million people. That's $90-$100 million per year. in 911 fees. They shouldn't have to raise taxes to have a properly functioning 911 system for 6.7 million people with nearly $100 mil.
    This is all I’m saying. If we can’t do it with all the existing taxes, then we don’t need to do it.

    I looked up Tennessee. In 2015 your state collected nearly $103 million in E-911 taxes. Projected to be nearly $112 million by 2017. Probably $120M+ by now. Every year. Over a decade, that’s a billion plus dollars in one state alone, being spent on what??

    I was going to attach a screenshot of the budget document to prove it, but it appears the iPhone keyboard now covers up the attachment buttons on the iPhone app. Anyway, to make a long story short, it’s all being disbursed into the general fund. Before everyone clamors for more taxes, why aren’t they demanding their taxes be spent on the things they’re ostensibly being collected for?

    And if they are being spent properly, we still don’t need more taxes, because the system works just fine as it is!


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    Quote Originally Posted by clonehappy View Post
    This is all I’m saying. If we can’t do it with all the existing taxes, then we don’t need to do it.

    I looked up Tennessee. In 2015 your state collected nearly $103 million in E-911 taxes. Projected to be nearly $112 million by 2017. Probably $120M+ by now. Every year. Over a decade, that’s a billion plus dollars in one state alone, being spent on what??

    I was going to attach a screenshot of the budget document to prove it, but it appears the iPhone keyboard now covers up the attachment buttons on the iPhone app. Anyway, to make a long story short, it’s all being disbursed into the general fund. Before everyone clamors for more taxes, why aren’t they demanding their taxes be spent on the things they’re ostensibly being collected for?

    And if they are being spent properly, we still don’t need more taxes, because the system works just fine as it is!


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    Oh I believe you. I forget what year they streamlined 911 taxes. They used to vary depending on what type of service. Then they changed it to everyone one pays the same amount

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Oh I believe you. I forget what year they streamlined 911 taxes. They used to vary depending on what type of service. Then they changed it to everyone one pays the same amount
    Too many municipalities spent the collected 911 taxes elsewhere and not where initially intended. This has been a known issue for more than a decade.

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    So this is all speculation.. but, as was brought up a few pages back, the cellular A and B band have a 1.5mhz slice (1 on upstream and 1 on downstrem) that are not contiguous with the other 10mhz. I assume they will run a 1.25mhz CDMA 1x channel in there (at cost of potentially one 1.4mhz LTE channel..), and in the 3G-days "PCS only" markets (i.e. no cellular) I suppose they may have to hold off on 5mhz of PCS spectrum, running either a 1x channel and nothing on the other 3.75mhz or possibly 1 (1.25mhz) 1x and 2 (1.4mhz) LTE channels. I would guess at end of year, they would deauthorize phones and devices other than these enterprise ones, but would not remove any actual network capabilities (it'd have 144kbps 1x data, text, and voice.) So emergency 3G phones would continue to work. A single 1x channel can carry like 60-100 calls so I seriously doubt there'll be service problems for whatever is left on 1x after that until it's fully shuttered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    So this is all speculation.. but, as was brought up a few pages back, the cellular A and B band have a 1.5mhz slice (1 on upstream and 1 on downstrem) that are not contiguous with the other 10mhz. I assume they will run a 1.25mhz CDMA 1x channel in there (at cost of potentially one 1.4mhz LTE channel..), and in the 3G-days "PCS only" markets (i.e. no cellular) I suppose they may have to hold off on 5mhz of PCS spectrum, running either a 1x channel and nothing on the other 3.75mhz or possibly 1 (1.25mhz) 1x and 2 (1.4mhz) LTE channels. I would guess at end of year, they would deauthorize phones and devices other than these enterprise ones, but would not remove any actual network capabilities (it'd have 144kbps 1x data, text, and voice.) So emergency 3G phones would continue to work. A single 1x channel can carry like 60-100 calls so I seriously doubt there'll be service problems for whatever is left on 1x after that until it's fully shuttered.
    those will be used to keep m2m and IoT going. Possibly 911 calls for flip phones

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    those will be used to keep m2m and IoT going. Possibly 911 calls for flip phones
    Exactly. Before the thread went off the rails talking about E911 funding, it was worrying that 3G emergency phones would drop dead at end of year without notice. So I'm thinking 911 calls for flip calls is exactly one use of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Exactly. Before the thread went off the rails talking about E911 funding, it was worrying that 3G emergency phones would drop dead at end of year without notice. So I'm thinking 911 calls for flip calls is exactly one use of it.
    It is not worrying since you have no expectation for 911 to work on a disconnected phone.

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    Well, there is a requirement for cell cos to connect 911 calls independent of phone service status, if it's able to make a call on that type of network. There really could be an expectation for 911 to work on a disconnected phone.

    That said, I'm not sweating it, I personally don't know anyone who has a cell phone but no service on it. I suppose if anyone does, they'd be well advised to pick up an inexpensive used UMTS flip phone, keeping in mind that might be going away around 2022 or so too, if they don't want to spend the bucks on a LTE flip. Or make sure they're in Sprint coverage -- they still have no timeline for 1x/EVDO shutdown as far as I know.

  13. #73
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    My thinking is that Verizon has an obligation to complete 911 calls on disconnected phones operating over a network that it supports. If the phone uses a technology that is no longer supported, there shouldn't be any obligation to complete the calls. Try calling 911 on an analog Motorola Star-Tac and see how that works out.

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    It is not Verizon's responsibility to support legacy network technology for the sole purpose of 911 calls on unactivated phones or their responsibility to notify anyone who is not a current customer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsocko View Post
    It is not Verizon's responsibility to support legacy network technology for the sole purpose of 911 calls on unactivated phones or their responsibility to notify anyone who is not a current customer.

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    I agree here. Old analog, iDEN, and TDMA/IS-136 phones no longer function at all. Why should the deprecation of legacy 1x/CDMA be any different?
    "I didn't get fat by accident. This was a personal choice. " - Kevin Gillespie

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