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Thread: Unlocked non-CDMA phones on Verizon? When?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevink1 View Post
    The visible owned prepaid service from Verizon, currently in beta, is VoLTE only. And so far only iPhones. For whatever reason, they support the iPhone 8/8+ non CDMA models but not the 7/7+. It is unknown whether the 7 modes is missing something for Verizon VoLTE, or if it is arbitrary. The same rules may apply for mainline Verizon when CDMA is turned off.

    The CDMA-less iPhone 7 has the Intel modem doesn't load the Verizon carrier profile when you insert a Verizon SIM. Instead it loads the GENERIC carrier profile, so it's not able to be fully usable on Verizon until Verizon and Apple add a carrier profile for it. As I recall, with entering the APN manually, it works for data, but no voice (it's been a few months since I last tried it -- when iOS 12 came out). I have no reason whatsoever to suspect that it would lack anything hardware-wise -- rather, I think it just needs the carrier settings as VoLTE is supposed to me a standard, but does need operator settings to work.

    The funny thing is I used this same CDMA-less iPhone 7 just fine roaming in France last year. Long story, but I wanted to use the iPhone 7 with my Verizon LTE roaming (Travel Pass), so I stuck my Verizon SIM in that device, and put my T-Mobile SIM in my Verizon iPhone 6S that i left behind in the hotel most days. FWIW, I was able to call/text/use data just fine for a week (remember, calling there is HSPA ("3G"), but everything worked great over there.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    Remind me what is Verizon’s version of VoLTE, over AT&T’s or TMobile’s versions?
    The initial version of the VoLTE standard (IR.92 v9) was "open to interpretation", so different carriers implemented it differently. From https://slideplayer.com/slide/9298406/
    Most MNO roll-outs of VoLTE are not interoperable. Key issues are
    • different EPS bearer setup
    • proprietary simplification of SIP call flows
    • operator specific introduction of SIP headers
    • different security configuration (AKA, IPsec, …)
    Interoperability improved in the next version of IR.92 (see https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/com...ding_with_the/), but I'm not sure if the carriers started using it yet.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by high technology View Post
    The CDMA-less iPhone 7 has the Intel modem doesn't load the Verizon carrier profile when you insert a Verizon SIM. Instead it loads the GENERIC carrier profile, so it's not able to be fully usable on Verizon until Verizon and Apple add a carrier profile for it.
    Wonder why Apple hasn't provided that in an update.
    iPhone X on ATT Prepaid. Backup iPhone 7+ on inexpensive Verizon MVNO plan. Hopefully covers me in the continental US for phone usage. Cheaper than a single unlimited plan on ATT or Verizon or T-Mobile.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevink1 View Post
    Wonder why Apple hasn't provided that in an update.
    Keep in mind that Apple specifically includes those bands per the request of the carrier who then sells the phone to the consumer. You can buy a non-carrier locked iPhone directly from Apple to avoid the issue.
    Don't make me turn this car around.....

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by veriztd View Post
    Keep in mind that Apple specifically includes those bands per the request of the carrier who then sells the phone to the consumer. You can buy a non-carrier locked iPhone directly from Apple to avoid the issue.
    The bands are available in the iPhone 7 for Verizon, except for the CDMA. But the ATT iPhone 8, unlocked, works on Verizon LTE. In this case, the ability to use an existing phone that would apparently be compatible if Apple/Verizon provided a carrier update.

    This doesn't affect me, since my 7+ was the Verizon model, and the X I bought for ATT last year was the version from Best Buy that included CDMA.

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    It think it has nothing to do with the actual hardware/software capabilities of the phone at this point. What matters is that, before launch, manufacturers send phones for certification by Verizon (and other carriers) to be included in Verizon database of "approved" phones for various features (like VoLTE). This has to happen at any major OS (radio baseband code) updates.
    The above database includes the phones based on their IMEI numbers, not by actual model.
    Ah, also that certification costs money.

    If the certain phone model (IMEI range) was not submitted, Verizon will not take upon themselves to certify that phone. If Apple wants you to buy a new phone, it will not pay for certification. And it will exclude those from using the Carrier Profile (even if is loaded, CP checked against Apple mother all the time).

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack4 View Post
    The initial version of the VoLTE standard (IR.92 v9) was "open to interpretation", so different carriers implemented it differently. From https://slideplayer.com/slide/9298406/


    Interoperability improved in the next version of IR.92 (see https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/com...ding_with_the/), but I'm not sure if the carriers started using it yet.
    Will there need to be software or hardware changes on handsets? Towers? If “yes” then which? Software or hardware? Handsets or towers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    Will there need to be software or hardware changes on handsets? Towers? If “yes” then which? Software or hardware? Handsets or towers?
    Definitely no hardware changes for handsets or towers are needed. It's only related to handsets and carrier's IMS core software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    Will there need to be software or hardware changes on handsets? Towers? If “yes” then which? Software or hardware? Handsets or towers?
    The only change needed is inside Verizon's VoLTE servers, to whitelist those IMEI's. Not gonna happen without Apple requesting certification of those phones.
    Apple would rather have you buy the newer models...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post
    The only change needed is inside Verizon's VoLTE servers, to whitelist those IMEI's. Not gonna happen without Apple requesting certification of those phones.
    Apple would rather have you buy the newer models...
    The only IMEI whitelist that Verizon has is for activating new sim cards. Verizon doesn't have any restrictions for already active sim cards, including VoLTE. As long as the phone software is compatible, it will just work even for non Verizon certified devices. The only thing that can go wrong is not receiving incoming messages due to incorrect network provisioning, but tier 3 support can fix it.

    In case of the iPhone 7/7+, it's Apple who doesn't allow these devices to use the correct Verizon carrier profile. It's probably because it was the first generation with Intel modems and there was some issue with them working on Verizon's network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack4 View Post
    Definitely no hardware changes for handsets or towers are needed. It's only related to handsets and carrier's IMS core software.

    Ok so will current* Verizon iPhones need a software update to update their IMS software to the latest IR.92 VoLTE standard?

    *iPhone 6 and later.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack4 View Post

    In case of the iPhone 7/7+, it's Apple who doesn't allow these devices to use the correct Verizon carrier profile. It's probably because it was the first generation with Intel modems and there was some issue with them working on Verizon's network.
    I agree. Apple probably was playing it safe since it was their first foray with Intel.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    Ok so will current* Verizon iPhones need a software update to update their IMS software to the latest IR.92 VoLTE standard?

    *iPhone 6 and later.
    iPhones already support the current implementation of Verizon VoLTE, whatever version of the standard they use. So I don't see much of a reason for them to update anything. But they sure can do it if they wanted.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by smsgator View Post
    Since CDMA in the U.S. is going away at the end of the year, and since VoLTE is pervasive, is it ever going to be possible to stick an activated Verizon SIM into an unlocked phone that lacks CDMA, but that supports the Verizon LTE bands and get service? Already, Verizon has at least one LTE-only network (Alaska).

    Thread title corrected
    I'm using a OnePlus 6T, requires feature CDMA_Less to indicate it's LTE only.
    If you don't have that feature SMS won't work.
    Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack4 View Post
    The only IMEI whitelist that Verizon has is for activating new sim cards. Verizon doesn't have any restrictions for already active sim cards, including VoLTE. As long as the phone software is compatible, it will just work even for non Verizon certified devices.
    I've heard that this will be changing. Verizon has announced that Invalid Device Automation will go into effect on Feb. 5.

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