Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 95

Thread: Why is Verizon VoLTE coverage so bad in my area (compared with CDMA)?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,778
    Device(s)
    HTC MyTouch 3G
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint PCS
    Feedback Score
    0

    Why is Verizon VoLTE coverage so bad in my area (compared with CDMA)?

    I must be missing something... Verizon VoLTE coverage/signal in my area (Upstate NY) is pretty bad: multiple dropped calls weekly, and garbled calls, etc. Verizon CDMA has been rock solid and near flawless in comparison. In building VoLTE is also far worse than CDMA. It is not limited to my area as, for example, my sister who lives in another state also complains. Also not limited to one VZW phone -- at least four different models I know of personally have these issues.

    I thought that Verizon's primary LTE band was 700Mhz, whereas CDMA is primarily 850Mhz with some 1900Mhz. If this is true and Verizon has deployed LTE 700Mhz everywhere it has CDMA, and 700Mhz *should* have better building penetration than 850 or 1900Mhz, then... why is VoLTE so bad?

    - What I wrote above is not true?
    - Verizon LTE is over-subscribed?
    - CDMA 1xRTT doesn't require as strong a signal as VoLTE to support a decent voice call?
    - other possible explanation?

    its getting very irritating... often just using CDMA now, but then what happens when VZW shuts it down?
    In my area Verizon has the reputation for being the best network, presumably based on its CDMA network. It will lose a lot of customers if it doesn't fix VoLTE before sunsetting CDMA.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    5,894
    Feedback Score
    0
    what phone do you have ??

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Greater Los Angeles
    Posts
    10,074
    Device(s)
    iPhone 11 Pro Max Series 4 Apple Watch
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile USA
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Every carrier has been accused of not performing well in Upstate NY. I've read a lot of complaints over the past 2 years here on HoFo.

    Must be the water?
    “The Internet wasn’t meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so it’s insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead — it’s a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text.” John Legere 1/5/2017

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,778
    Device(s)
    HTC MyTouch 3G
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint PCS
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    Every carrier has been accused of not performing well in Upstate NY. I've read a lot of complaints over the past 2 years here on HoFo.

    Must be the water?
    The point is that Verizon voice coverage *used to be* great with CDMA. Its just not good now with VoLTE.

    I'm using a iPhone 6S, but friends using a iPhone SE, Samsung S6 and S8 all report similar issues.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    2,961
    Device(s)
    HTC One M8
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint
    Feedback Score
    0
    Essentially VoLTE coverage requires a stronger signal than 1x.

    Basically LTE on PCS covers about 65% of the range of 1x. If they deploy it on 850 or even 700, then it roughly matches 1x on PCS — that’s just to “see” the LTE. Weak LTE will still drop or garble the call. Even 700 LTE will only match about 80% of 1x on 850...

    Same reason Sprint has taken forever to deploy VoLTE — they know they need to density their network. Even with their 850 LTE, my phone still drops to perfectly usable 1x CDMA that can reach miles beyond LTE from the same site. The difference is, Verizon has been adding enough fill-in sites that they felt confident they could release VoLTE, and even offer VoLTE phones...

    In all honesty, I see VoLTE as just another “advancement” that makes rural areas lose coverage... there are still areas I know of that had fine analog coverage, but never got CDMA... now there will be areas that had CDMA fhat will never get LTE. The carriers just don’t care about rural areas...

    So if you need your phone in these areas, stick with CDMA til the bitter end... the carriers needed to fill in sites when they launched CDMA to match analog, including Verizon... and they didn’t fully do it... and the same will happen with LTE... and they won’t either... including Verizon.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,873
    Device(s)
    Note 10+
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    What areas of upstate NY are you in? How does at&t perform in those areas?

    The tower placement in many parts of upstate NY is quite frustrating.
    I am currently in east central NY, taconic range, and my phone is connected to the third, maybe fourth closest tower. The closest tower to me currently is 100 ft high, with a hill 200 ft higher right behind it. Makes sense, right? Damn nimbys. If it wasn't for them, and we could have 200+ ft towers up here, we wouldn't have nearly as many coverage issues.

    Another tower nearby is at 150 ft on the west slope of a hill, the top of the hill is about 100 ft higher. Three arrays facing north, west, and south from at&t, vzw, and tmobile. Town hall on the other side of the hill? 0 signal. This is why VoLTE does not work well in many areas of upstate NY.

    1x could bounce around much better than the 5 to 20 mhz wide LTE channels. You'll hear many say, the channel width on LTE does not matter; only on paper. Real world experience tells a different story. Jim Mcgraff on here explained to me that the wider the channel, the less power output from the radio heads. I've noticed this back home in NYC where we have a 5 mhz and 10 mhz channel on band 2 LTE on at&t. 5 mhz is always a bit more powerful and cleaner. The new 5 mhz band 5 channel recently launched also seems to do better than 700 mhz @ 10 mhz width.

    The answer maybe, is to launch a 1.5 or 3 mhz wide channel to carry VoLTE, only, if possible, and blast it as hard as the radio heads can handle, in rural areas.

    Sent from my SM-N960U 6GB aka Note 9 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Joeybutts; 12-09-2018 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,630
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeybutts View Post
    What areas of upstate NY are you in? How does at&t perform in those areas?

    The tower placement in many parts of upstate NY is quite frustrating.
    I am currently in east central NY, taconic range, and my phone is connected to the third, maybe fourth closest tower. The closest tower to me currently is 100 ft high, with a hill 200 ft higher right behind it. Makes sense, right? Damn nimbys. If it wasn't for them, and we could have 200+ ft towers up here, we wouldn't have nearly as many coverage issues.

    Another tower nearby is at 150 ft on the west slope of a hill, the top of the hill is about 100 ft higher. Three arrays facing north, west, and south from at&t, vzw, and tmobile. Town hall on the other side of the hill? 0 signal. This is why VoLTE does not work well in many areas of upstate NY.

    1x could bounce around much better than the 5 to 20 mhz wide LTE channels. You'll hear many say, the channel width on LTE does not matter; only on paper. Real world experience tells a different story. Jim Mcgraff on here explained to me that the wider the channel, the less power output from the radio heads. I've noticed this back home in NYC where we have a 5 mhz and 10 mhz channel on band 2 LTE on at&t. 5 mhz is always a bit more powerful and cleaner. The new 5 mhz band 5 channel recently launched also seems to do better than 700 mhz @ 10 mhz width.

    The answer maybe, is to launch a 1.5 or 3 mhz wide channel to carry VoLTE, only, if possible, and blast it as hard as the radio heads can handle, in rural areas.

    Sent from my SM-N960U 6GB aka Note 9 using Tapatalk
    In most places Verizon uses carrier aggregation so those channels are wider than that. As far as band 5 that 5MHZ is going to be 10 as soon a CDMA is shut down.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,778
    Device(s)
    HTC MyTouch 3G
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint PCS
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by NGeorge View Post
    Essentially VoLTE coverage requires a stronger signal than 1x.

    Basically LTE on PCS covers about 65% of the range of 1x. If they deploy it on 850 or even 700, then it roughly matches 1x on PCS — that’s just to “see” the LTE. Weak LTE will still drop or garble the call. Even 700 LTE will only match about 80% of 1x on 850...

    Same reason Sprint has taken forever to deploy VoLTE — they know they need to density their network. Even with their 850 LTE, my phone still drops to perfectly usable 1x CDMA that can reach miles beyond LTE from the same site. The difference is, Verizon has been adding enough fill-in sites that they felt confident they could release VoLTE, and even offer VoLTE phones...

    In all honesty, I see VoLTE as just another “advancement” that makes rural areas lose coverage...
    Thanks. I think what you're saying here is the basic answer to my question. Indeed even 1x on PCS was/is iffy here. It is really 1x on 850 that makes/made Verizon so solid here. So its disappointing to think that LTE on 700Mhz is unlikely to be ever as good as 1x on 850.
    What areas of upstate NY are you in? How does at&t perform in those areas?
    But we're not talking rural Upstate NY. Even urban areas, such as they are (pop 200K like Syracuse) have these issues.

    I dont have as much data on AT&T. Overall AT&T has always been worse than Verizon CDMA but my sense is that AT&T 4G may be more solid than Verizon LTE for voice -- at least specific AT&T friends under specific situations don't have as many complaints.

    Its a shame not only because of Verizon's reputation around here but also because when VoLTE works it really is better, clearer than 1x. I guess we'll see as the next year winds around and CDMA sunset draws closer...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Apalachicola National Forest, FL
    Posts
    115
    Feedback Score
    0
    VoLTE calls are still data. If your region has a capacity problem that can cause voice issues. Voice calls over LTE are supposed to run at a higher priority ensuring a good quality of service, but I've found that is not always the case.

    My area of North Florida has had serious capacity issues for around a year now. Data and VoLTE both are in the crapper. Strong signals, but no flow.

    CDMA is the only thing that still works.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using HoFo mobile app

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    583
    Device(s)
    iPhone 6 128GB (Verizon Version) on Cricket
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint & Cricket
    Feedback Score
    0
    [QUOTE=NGeorge;17042217}
    In all honesty, I see VoLTE as just another “advancement” that makes rural areas lose coverage... there are still areas I know of that had fine analog coverage, but never got CDMA... now there will be areas that had CDMA fhat will never get LTE. The carriers just don’t care about rural areas...
    [/QUOTE]

    That happens everywhere.
    Our hometown in Mexico had good analog coverage back in the 90’s from the two carriers.
    Then in the 2000’s Telcel came out with TDMA and coverage was still decent. GSM came out TDMA and analog were shut down, coverage was lost.
    Same with Iusacell now AT&T Mexico CDMA was ok but after migrating their customers to their new GSM they shut down CDMA.

    Already about 10 years without coverage.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,630
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenTBK View Post
    VoLTE calls are still data. If your region has a capacity problem that can cause voice issues. Voice calls over LTE are supposed to run at a higher priority ensuring a good quality of service, but I've found that is not always the case.

    My area of North Florida has had serious capacity issues for around a year now. Data and VoLTE both are in the crapper. Strong signals, but no flow.

    CDMA is the only thing that still works.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using HoFo mobile app
    VoLTE only uses 13 kbps. Even if a tower only has band 13 and only QAM 64( both being very rare ) each tower sector( of which most tower have 3 ) has enough bandwidth could handle 5700 simultaneous calls. Of course a tower with band 13 only and QAM could not handle that many calls at once anyway but the bandwidth is there

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    São Paulo-Brazil
    Posts
    62
    Device(s)
    Galaxy A8
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    VoLTE only uses 13 kbps. Even if a tower only has band 13 and only QAM 64( both being very rare ) each tower sector( of which most tower have 3 ) has enough bandwidth could handle 5700 simultaneous calls. Of course a tower with band 13 only and QAM could not handle that many calls at once anyway but the bandwidth is there
    Field tests done by carriers show that under weak signal a VoLTE call can take up more bandwidth than a CDMA or UMTS call and may wreck all that sector's data bandwidth. That's why a carrier that offers VoLTE has to have a lot of LTE bandwidth at disposal.

    The truth is that VoLTE eat up a lot of data bandwidth, just to offer a service that could be handled much better by the older tehnologies.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,778
    Device(s)
    HTC MyTouch 3G
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint PCS
    Feedback Score
    0
    hmm...
    "Verizon's claimed 4G LTE coverage is grossly overstated," the Rural Wireless Association (RWA), which represents rural carriers...
    https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/08...ade-group-says

    The truth is that VoLTE eat up a lot of data bandwidth, just to offer a service that could be handled much better by the older tehnologies.
    that *is* disturbing...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    733
    Device(s)
    iPhone 11 Pro
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    It isn't just Upstate NY. I've found LTE-only coverage and/or performance to be sub-par compared to AT&T in my area. I'll be switching back shortly. AT&T in Central NY was pretty good aside from the usual gaps in really rural areas when I was there last summer. Specifically, I got good LTE service in Cooperstown, Oneonta, Binghamton, Watkins Glen, Ithaca, and Norwich.

    When I was actually Upstate a few years ago, I got good AT&T coverage in Glens Falls and Lake George. I was shocked to get full signal in Huellets Landing.

    AT&T keeps half-promising to put an antenna on the new FirstNet tower where my folks live in Morris, but who knows if they will actually do it?
    Last edited by NCTed; 12-11-2018 at 11:10 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,873
    Device(s)
    Note 10+
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by NCTed View Post
    It isn't just Upstate NY. I've found LTE-only coverage and/or performance to be sub-par compared to AT&T in my area. I'll be switching back shortly. AT&T in Central NY was pretty good aside from the usual gaps in really rural areas when I was there last summer. Specifically, I got good LTE service in Cooperstown, Oneonta, Binghamton, Watkins Glen, Ithaca, and Norwich.

    When I actually Upstate a few years ago, I got good AT&T coverage in Glens Falls and Lake George. I was shocked to get full signal in Heuletts Landing.

    AT&T keeps half-promising to put an antenna on the new FirstNet tower where my folks live in Morris, but who knows if they will actually do it?
    The eastern half of nys has very good at&t coverage. This past summer, many towers were running 5 to 6 carriers of LTE in the Saratoga/ Glen's fall's/ lake George area. Even 45 minutes into the 'dack's you still saw multiple carriers running.

    Sent from my SM-N960U 6GB aka Note 9 using Tapatalk

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-06-2006, 07:44 PM
  2. Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-27-2005, 10:18 PM
  3. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-27-2003, 11:29 PM
  4. Why is Verizon's coverage so complete?
    By RogerPodacter in forum AT&T
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-24-2003, 02:25 AM
  5. Why is Verizon TEXT MESSAGING SO EXPENSIVE
    By WeneedJapPhones in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-02-2003, 09:14 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks