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Thread: LTE (and 5G) knowledge sharing

  1. #166
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    LTE (and 5G) knowledge sharing

    SA = standalone 5G (completely new end-to-end 5G network with no dependency or reliance on existing 4G/LTE). This requires 5G coverage to be well-established.

    NSA = non-standalone 5G (leverages and depends on LTE infrastructure). Most providers will opt to implement NSA first and then move to SA once 5G coverage is established.

    So going back to what sheytoon asked, do you mean China has 5G SA? Haven’t heard of any carrier having SA yet.


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  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolcube View Post
    So going back to what sheytoon asked, do you mean China has 5G SA? Haven’t heard of any carrier having SA yet.


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    I don’t know.

  3. #168
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    So what makes China's 5G better than Korea for example? Is it coverage, speed, or something else?
    Want to learn more about how LTE works?
    https://productioncommunity.publicmo...ls/td-p/130581

  4. #169
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    Probably too soon to say better, but China is the only place I’ve been where handsets and coverage are widespread.

  5. #170
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    Just got a update this morning on my S20 Ultra on Bell... Looks like 5G is around the corner... Anyone have any info on when 5G will be enabled on the network?

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    Dial *#0011#
    Look for 2 values: UPPERLAYER_IND_R15 and DCNR_RESTRICTION.

    If the first one is support, it means the LTE cell is configured for 5G NSA. If the second one is false, it means your SIM is allowed to use 5G.

    Both conditions are required for you to see the 5G icon and get access to the 5G network.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheytoon View Post
    Dial *#0011#
    Look for 2 values: UPPERLAYER_IND_R15 and DCNR_RESTRICTION.

    If the first one is support, it means the LTE cell is configured for 5G NSA. If the second one is false, it means your SIM is allowed to use 5G.

    Both conditions are required for you to see the 5G icon and get access to the 5G network.
    First says not supported
    The other says TRUE

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  8. #173
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    Ok so if you ever find a location with first one saying support, it means 5G is available there.

    The second one is your profile and Bell would need to enable 5G access for you. Once it's enabled, the restriction will say false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheytoon View Post
    Ok so if you ever find a location with first one saying support, it means 5G is available there.

    The second one is your profile and Bell would need to enable 5G access for you. Once it's enabled, the restriction will say false.
    Wow thank you sir! Ill look into it, and post back whenever I find a tower that is 5G enabled.

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  10. #175
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    LTE (and 5G) knowledge sharing

    Greeting everyone! Haven’t posted here in a while and sorry for resurrecting a very old thread. Noticed that the Canadian 5G flavours of iPhone (12 and 13) don’t support band 17 (700MHz) on 5G. I only see support for bands 12 and 29 on the low band 700MHz spectrum. Is this because Apple just decided not to include band 17 support for 5G, or is it a technical limitation for 5G in general?

    If it’s the latter (i.e. 5G doesn’t support band 17), will this impact Bell’s 5G implementation and coverage? Since Bell doesn’t have much (any at all?) band 12 spectrum, and zero 600MHz spectrum, they’ll only be able to refarm band 29 LTE for 5G and I guess band 5 as well. So I suspect this will impact them as it severely limits their low band, and thus, their “coverage layer” of 5G, but interested to hear what others think. Thanks.


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  11. #176
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    So a few things...
    LTE Band 12 is a superset of Band 17. For 5G they got rid of the idea of n17, and there is only n12. Bell's current B17 can be deployed as n12, no issue.

    Having said that, Bell, Telus, Rogers have no immediate plans for 700 MHz NR. They can use n71 or n5 low band NR for now. B12 will stay as low band LTE for many years to come. In my opinion no operator will do DSS on B12 because the overhead will cripple performance.

    Band 29 (and corresponding n29) are downlink only, can only be used for CA.

    I agree Bell is kinda screwed for low band 5G coverage layer. n5 seems to be the only option for Toronto.

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    LTE (and 5G) knowledge sharing

    Thanks sheytoon. I was afraid of your confirmation that Bell (and Telus) are not in a good position for low band 5G in Bell RAN territory. Will be interesting to see how this plays out with Rogers having 20MHz (10 MHz in some markets) of low band (600MHz) 5G. They seem to clearly have the upper hand. Bell deploying on n5 (with channel width at only 5MHz) isn’t feasible in my opinion. Unless Bell plans to split a significant number of cells and deploy many more sites, thereby keeping devices happily connected on mid/high bands rather than having a low band coverage layer…but that will get very expensive.

    I still can’t believe Bell didn’t win (bid on?) any 600MHz spectrum…


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    Quote Originally Posted by toolcube View Post
    I still can’t believe Bell didn’t win (bid on?) any 600MHz spectrum…


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    Bell didn't win or bid on ANY 600 MHz spectrum anywhere in Canada because they said their network is so amazing that they don't need any. That seemed really arrogant to me. But Bell has a good point saying their US counterparts don't need it so why do they? If I remember correctly, T-Mobile bought by far the largest chunk of 600 MHz spectrum throughout much of the USA.

    Given the supply of other low-band spectrum that Bell already possesses, 600 MHz is not required for Bell to deliver broadband 4G and 5G services. Similar to Bell, the company's main U.S. peers chose not to own any 600 MHz spectrum in their markets.

    Bell's existing low-band spectrum, combined with network enhancements like cell splitting, enables the company to deliver mobile broadband service for significantly less capital than buying 600 MHz spectrum.

    Bell holds spectrum in the 700, 850, 1900, AWS-1, AWS-3, 2500, 3500 MHz and 24 GHz bands. The previously announced shutdown of its CDMA network on April 30 also enables Bell to "re-farm" additional low band spectrum in the 850 MHz band for 5G services.
    Source, directly from Bell on April 10, 2019: Bell update on federal auction of 600 MHz spectrum
    https://www.bce.ca/news-and-media/re...mhz-spectrum-1

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  14. #179
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    LTE (and 5G) knowledge sharing

    Thanks. I remember that statement from Bell. But just because Verizon and AT&T don’t own any 600MHz spectrum doesn’t make it right for them to not own any. The fact of the matter is Rogers will eat their lunch when it comes to 5G performance on the low band coverage layer, especially in the less dense areas like suburbs and rural regions where low band is critical. Yes, Bell has band 5 and band 12/17, but those are only 5MHz wide channels and who knows if they’ll be able to aggregate. Plus sheytoon mentioned that band 12/17 will continue to be used exclusively for LTE for many years.

    So Bell and Telus devices will be forced to drop to LTE for low band coverage or Bell will need to significantly expand their number of sites via cell splitting as they mentioned in their statement…still very expensive and a lot more work compared to acquiring and deploying low band spectrum on existing sites. I’m just still shocked that Bell would do this (not buy any 600MHz spectrum) when they’ve always prided themselves on operating Canada’s “best” network. As a Telus customer in Bell RAN territory, it frustrates me.


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    Oh no. I'm just in the middle of switching back to Telus on a 5G plan (also in Bell RAN territory) and I'll be getting an iPhone 13 Pro (Max ?) in a few months. I've heard 600 MHz spectrum referred to as "beachfront" spectrum so I thought it really odd that Bell ignored the auction. Yet their cellphone tower sharing buddy Telus bought 600 MHz spectrum in their RAN territories.

    Maybe sheytoon can explain Bell's position and how Bell will 'deliver mobile broadband service for significantly less capital than buying 600 MHz spectrum' as Bell said in their press release?

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