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Thread: Can Moto E4 be used with Red Pocket CDMA?

  1. #16
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    Actually, what I described is how I have always understood it to work. Once you put the SIM in the new device, the network reads the IMEI of the new device and associates that IMEI with the account and frees up the other IMEI. That's why people were doing a few years back when you had to "borrow" an IMEI to activate something.

    I just checked this with PagePlus online activation system to confirm -- I have a post-paid, activated 6S and another Verizon iPhone not currently on Verizon (it's activated on FreedomPop GSM, but as far as Verizon's system is concerned it's unactivated).

    Before SIM swap: My 6S reported ineligible for activation.
    5 minutes after putting the 6S SIM in the other iPhone, the PagePlus validated the IMEI and moved on to the account setup screen.
    Put the SIM back in the 6S, waited a couple of minutes and now getting the same ineligible error again.

  2. #17
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    Well it doesn't work that way with Tracfone/VZ. Sim swap from IMEI donor phone to donee phone and the IMEI of the donor phone cannot then be used to activate with that IMEI on TF/VZ.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >Put the SIM back in the 6S, waited a couple of minutes and now getting the same ineligible error again.

    Not sure how that proves anything. A better test is to check the 6s' IMEI for eligibility against the various VZW IMEI checkers, after you've moved its SIM to the other iPhone. For comprehensiveness, do separate checks before and after.
    Well, how about this: Since the OP asked about Red Pocket, I did the exact same thing I did with PagePlus, but now I was able to find the Red Pocket checker at https://myeasyactivation.com:

    1) Checked the both devices before SIM swap: 6S comes back Ineligible due to "Discount" error (presumably their way of saying they won't pay the Verizon ransom for my postpaid number that is under contract). The other iPhone came back as eligible to activate on CDMAV.

    2) Swapped Verizon SIM card from my 6S to the other iPhone and make a 30 second test call to ensure it is truly active on the switch. Checked both devices again -- this time the 6S is clear to activate on CDMAV, and the other iPhone is now ineligible to activate ("Discount" error). So the results are basically reversed -- the 6S is clear to activate and the other iPhone is not.

    3) Swapped the Verizon SIM card back to the 6S and made another test call. Checked the ESNs again, and we're back to the same results as Step 1) above.

    Verizon's LTE system uses the SIM to activate the service to the device. You can freely SIM swap on Verizon -- I've done it many times, including swapping my SIMs from my work phone into my personal phone -- the work phone was on Verizon post-paid contract and the personal phone (back then) was on PagePlus or Puppy Wireless.

    I know Total Wireless does tie the originally activated IMEI to the line in some way, but since the OP didn't ask about them, I thought that would just muddy the waters. Mathfaster, I think that's what you're also experiencing on Tracfone/VZ -- Total Wireless is another Tracfone subsidiary so that makes sense to me.

    We can certainly debate this all we'd like, but the one sure fire way to prove this out on RP is for the OP to put his wife's SIM in his E4 and see if the service works by making a test call. That will ALSO tell him whether the E4 is truly clear to activate on a MVNO (or whether it has a prepaid block on it in the Verizon system). Assuming the E4 works, he can then go to the easy activation page I linked above, and check the IMEI of his wife's Moto G. If it comes up clear, then what I propose should work.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    I'm confused. You're saying that both phones' IMEIs are eligible to activate, so how would SIM swapping apply here? SIM swapping is typically resorted to because one IMEI is ineligible.

    This doesn't invalidate your theory that a VZW IMEI is freed upon a SIM swap, but it doesn't validate it either. You need to swap out to a phone with ineligible IMEI.
    When you have a phone that is ineligible to activate (but is compatible) with the Verizon system, your application of the term SIM swapping is used. What you refer to as a "last resort" is only one application (i.e., a subset) of the more global universe of how SIM swapping works on Verizon. I refer to SIM swapping as simply moving a SIM from one device to another for whatever reason, whether it be to activate it or just because I'd rather carry a different iPhone for the weekend with my same Verizon number attached to it.

    If you "borrow" an IMEI for activation and swap the SIM to an ineligible phone(your application), what is it that you think happens to the donor phone's IMEI? Do you think that the IMEI is permanently tied up on the Verizon system to the account, even though the number is active on another IMEI? Verizon doesn't do that -- rather, as soon as the new device is activated, the old device is freed up. If that were the case, we wouldn't be able to sell our previous Verizon handsets to a third party without having to manually deactivate them with Verizon.

    Verizon LTE-LTE device changes work just like GSM. The system automatically activates the new handset and deactivates the old handset when the SIM is swapped; this is all done "behind the scenes". The only difference is that when a number is first activated, the Verizon infrastructure needs an initial IMEI to associate with the number. It's never been 100% clear to my why that is -- whether that is a holdover from the CDMA days when they needed an ESN, or whether it was Verizon's way of ensuring a compatible phone was initially put on the account. That said, it is also my understanding that the ability to swap SIMs to a device to activate it (the "last resort") is an offshoot of the Verizon agreement to provide open access to Band 13 (which is their primary LTE band) -- I won't rehash the history here, but in order to keep Google from getting Band 13, Verizon agreed to allow "any compatible" device on Band 13 (and also agreed to not lock their 4G handsets)...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by high technology View Post
    Well, how about this: Since the OP asked about Red Pocket, I did the exact same thing I did with PagePlus, but now I was able to find the Red Pocket checker at https://myeasyactivation.com:

    1) Checked the both devices before SIM swap: 6S comes back Ineligible due to "Discount" error (presumably their way of saying they won't pay the Verizon ransom for my postpaid number that is under contract). The other iPhone came back as eligible to activate on CDMAV.

    2) Swapped Verizon SIM card from my 6S to the other iPhone and make a 30 second test call to ensure it is truly active on the switch. Checked both devices again -- this time the 6S is clear to activate on CDMAV, and the other iPhone is now ineligible to activate ("Discount" error). So the results are basically reversed -- the 6S is clear to activate and the other iPhone is not.

    3) Swapped the Verizon SIM card back to the 6S and made another test call. Checked the ESNs again, and we're back to the same results as Step 1) above.

    Verizon's LTE system uses the SIM to activate the service to the device. You can freely SIM swap on Verizon -- I've done it many times, including swapping my SIMs from my work phone into my personal phone -- the work phone was on Verizon post-paid contract and the personal phone (back then) was on PagePlus or Puppy Wireless.

    I know Total Wireless does tie the originally activated IMEI to the line in some way, but since the OP didn't ask about them, I thought that would just muddy the waters. Mathfaster, I think that's what you're also experiencing on Tracfone/VZ -- Total Wireless is another Tracfone subsidiary so that makes sense to me.

    We can certainly debate this all we'd like, but the one sure fire way to prove this out on RP is for the OP to put his wife's SIM in his E4 and see if the service works by making a test call. That will ALSO tell him whether the E4 is truly clear to activate on a MVNO (or whether it has a prepaid block on it in the Verizon system). Assuming the E4 works, he can then go to the easy activation page I linked above, and check the IMEI of his wife's Moto G. If it comes up clear, then what I propose should work.
    This scenario was why I started a thread about it back in August: http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...Verizon-MVNO-s

    Just because the compatibility check on Red Pocket's myeasyactivation site says that it's eligible, doesn't mean that it will activate when you follow through. But I've never tried to activate 2 SIMs with the same IMEI on the same or different MVNOs.

    I did recently try to activate a Verizon SIM on Red Pocket with the IMEI from a US Cellular Moto E4 that I purchased from eBay. When I initially checked the IMEI, the site said it was eligible, but when I entered all the information to activate it, I got an error message that the device was already active on the network. I don't know why that happened. Perhaps the USC Moto E4 is not actually eligible to be activated on Verizon.

    I used a different eligible IMEI and that worked fine. That's not the same IMEI that the SIM is now being used in and that IMEI still says it's eligible on myeasyactivation when I checked just now.

    It would be interesting to see if someone is able to activate 2 SIMs using the same eligible IMEI.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw01 View Post
    ...It would be interesting to see if someone is able to activate 2 SIMs using the same eligible IMEI.
    Well this poster a couple of posts back said they did exactly that: http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...0#post16944220

    Now where is the OP so they can try this?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathfaster View Post
    Well this poster a couple of posts back said they did exactly that: http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...0#post16944220

    Now where is the OP so they can try this?
    OK, I missed that. I don't think this will work on TracFone. You used to be able to use the same eligible IMEI by changing the last digit when activating a Verizon SIM on TracFone. I used that once, but they fixed it when they changed the website. For CDMA, IMEI = MEID plus a check digit.

    If I activate another line on Red Pocket, I'll try using the same IMEI that I used previously and see if it works.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathfaster View Post
    Well this poster a couple of posts back said they did exactly that: http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...0#post16944220

    Now where is the OP so they can try this?
    Ok, I will try to do it but can you check if these steps are right?

    Because my gsma plan will end in Jan 15/2017, I already bought new CDMA plan on ebay.

    1. Put my wife CDMA SIM into my E4 see if it works.

    2. If it does work, use my wife Moto G4 active my current number with CDMA (do I need process for porting to CDMA first? If yes, how?)

    3. When my new CDMA SIM activated on G4, switch it back to E4

    4. Switch my wife SIM back to G4.

  9. #24
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    Turned off Moto E4, put my wide CDMA into my Moto E4, no luck. Couldn't make a call.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rn2012 View Post
    Turned off Moto E4, put my wide CDMA into my Moto E4, no luck. Couldn't make a call.
    That should work as long as it is a Verizon Prepaid Moto E4 that you unlocked.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw01 View Post
    That should work as long as it is a Verizon Prepaid Moto E4 that you unlocked.
    But it didn't work. I couldn't make calls.


    Quote Originally Posted by tzais01 View Post
    FWIW, I have activated two brand new Vz Moto E4s (unlocked from Ebay) on RP CDMA using the same IMEI from a whitelisted Iphone. For LTE, the brains of the phone are in the SIM card, versus the IMEI as they used to be before LTE. The RP activation site did not care about the IMEI number and thus accepted the same number twice. They will even tell you you can put the SIM card in any other phone and they don't care about updating your account.
    It didn't work for me. I use my wife RP CDMA SIM in E4 and couldn't make calls. What do you mean by "using the same IMEI from a whitelisted Iphone"? Can you explain more about it?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rn2012 View Post
    Turned off Moto E4, put my wide CDMA into my Moto E4, no luck. Couldn't make a call.
    When you rebooted the E4 with the CDMA SIM inside, did you get any messages suggesting the SIM isn't being accepted? Did you get signal bars and does the carrier indicator say Verizon?

    I don't know what the available settings are on the E4 as I don't have one, but you'd either want it on AUTO or LTE/CDMA-2000 (which is the CDMA that Verizon uses). In the Slickdeals post, it says you may need to toggle 3G/LTE to get it to start working on a different network, so perhaps those are the only visible network settings on this device.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by high technology View Post
    When you rebooted the E4 with the CDMA SIM inside, did you get any messages suggesting the SIM isn't being accepted? Did you get signal bars and does the carrier indicator say Verizon?

    I don't know what the available settings are on the E4 as I don't have one, but you'd either want it on AUTO or LTE/CDMA-2000 (which is the CDMA that Verizon uses). In the Slickdeals post, it says you may need to toggle 3G/LTE to get it to start working on a different network, so perhaps those are the only visible network settings on this device.
    When I reboot the phone with CDMA SIM, I didn't get any message. I got carrier indicator say Verizon wireless but it goes away few second later) I got signal bars. However, when I made calls, I got no rings. And about 5 seconds, calls disconnected. I tried to call to my home and cell numbers.

    I already tried LTE/CDMA and 3G.

    Edit: found this on RP: https://help.goredpocket.com/hc/en-u...on-my-account-

    How do I swap phones on my account?

    For CDMA LTE

    - Simply insert the SIM card to the new device. That should automatically change in the system and you can still enjoy current refill.


    Does that mean the problem here is the phone?
    Last edited by rn2012; 12-27-2017 at 08:46 PM.

  14. #29
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    I put my activated Verizon SIM in a locked Verizon Prepaid Moto E4 and the network said "Preferred Network" and the phone didn't connect correctly. It's been a while so I don't remember exactly what it did.

    If you have an activated Red Pocket CDMA (Verizon SIM) that works in the Moto G4, it should work in an unlocked Verizon Prepaid Moto E4. Check in Settings -> About Phone -> Status -> SIM status. It should show Network: Verizon Wireless, Cellular Network type: LTE, Service state: In Service and should show your phone number under My phone number.

    Under Settings -> More -> Cellular Networks, Data roaming should be off, Preferred network type set to LTE / CDMA, System select automatic, CDMA subscription RUIM/SIM and finally check your APN. Mine is VZWINTERNET.

    You can try putting the SIM back in the Moto G4 and see if the settings are the same.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw01 View Post
    I put my activated Verizon SIM in a locked Verizon Prepaid Moto E4 and the network said "Preferred Network" and the phone didn't connect correctly. It's been a while so I don't remember exactly what it did.
    It says Verizon Wireless when I reboot the E4. I corrected the post above

    If you have an activated Red Pocket CDMA (Verizon SIM) that works in the Moto G4, it should work in an unlocked Verizon Prepaid Moto E4. Check in Settings -> About Phone -> Status -> SIM status. It should show Network: Verizon Wireless, Cellular Network type: LTE, Service state: In Service and should show your phone number under My phone number.
    It shows everything like this

    Under Settings -> More -> Cellular Networks, Data roaming should be off, Preferred network type set to LTE / CDMA, System select automatic, CDMA subscription RUIM/SIM and finally check your APN. Mine is VZWINTERNET.
    It shows like this except, what is CDMA subscription RUIM/SIM ? And mine shows VZWINTERNET too.

    I can text and data. Man, that seems promising. I need to find out why I can't make calls.
    Last edited by rn2012; 12-27-2017 at 09:27 PM.

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