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Thread: Apple pay

  1. #1
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    Apple pay

    Do you think phone companies are going to block Apple Pay like they blocked Google Wallet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by omerc10696 View Post
    Do you think phone companies are going to block Apple Pay like they blocked Google Wallet?
    Carriers can't block Apple Pay. Banks and retailers could sandbag it.

    actually, how could they block google wallet? No retailers wanted google wallet, so what was there to block?
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    Providers are pushing isis softcard. I hope it will work on iphone 6.

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    Carriers were able to block Google Wallet because it used the secure element within the NFC chip. The secure element was considered proprietary hardware and Verizon leveraged it to block the feature. I believe they wanted to use Isis(now softcard, IIRC) instead.


    Google got around this by changing Wallet so it doesn't need the SE, but uses host card emulation instead, which is way better, and now enables all phones with 4.4+ and and NFC chip to use the feature.

    As far as retailers not wanting Google Wallet? I don't think that matters...anywhere that accepts Mastercard Paypass will accept Wallet.
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    Seems like people assume they can just start using apple pay anywhere that they can use there credit card. Terminals have to be in place. I've used tap and pay through wallet and it works great, problem is there just are not a lot of places that have the terminals.
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...le_wallet.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjacks12 View Post
    Carriers were able to block Google Wallet because it used the secure element within the NFC chip. The secure element was considered proprietary hardware and Verizon leveraged it to block the feature. I believe they wanted to use Isis(now softcard, IIRC) instead.


    Google got around this by changing Wallet so it doesn't need the SE, but uses host card emulation instead, which is way better, and now enables all phones with 4.4+ and and NFC chip to use the feature.

    As far as retailers not wanting Google Wallet? I don't think that matters...anywhere that accepts Mastercard Paypass will accept Wallet.
    By default? Or would google still have to negotiate as an accepted payment method? The hardware might be compatible, but that doesn't mean all compatible payment methods would automatically be accepted, does it?

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    This is an interesting article that tries to explain the difference with Apple Pay. Granted, I am not overly familiar with the system so some of it might not be on point but it seems well informed.
    http://www.macworld.com/article/2607...ually-use.html

    Why Apple Pay is different
    Apple Pay is far from the first mobile payment system. Google Wallet was released in 2011, a collection of mobile phone companies back Softcard, and even PayPal targets mobile payments. However, none has gained wide adoption, and Apple Pay is clearly poised to shake things, for several reasons.


    First is the usual attention that Apple pays to the entire user experience. With Google Wallet, you need to enter your card numbers by hand, either online or through the app. To make a payment, you need to use the app and unlock it with a passcode. Although Google Wallet can work with NFC, the actual implementation depends on the hardware and software combination of your Android phone. Even if your phone has NFC, if it doesn’t have a secure element too, you can’t use it for contactless payments. And if your phone does have a secure element, it may not be accessible to Google Wallet because it isn’t accessible to the NFC chipset or due to carrier restrictions.


    Those same mobile phone carriers are the ones backing the competing Softcard product, and they haven’t seemed very supportive of Google. Also, Google stores your card on its own servers and mediates and records all transactions with the payment networks. (Wallet issues a virtual prepaid card to the device). Google protects this with its privacy policy, but the company still has full records of all of your transactions. Softcard is also an app, only works on approved phone models, and is carrier-specific. The carriers back Softcard, in part, so they can track your purchases and use that information for their own purposes.


    By contrast, Apple Pay works with every new iPhone and Apple Watch. Apple doesn’t track your transactions, and your privacy is protected even from the merchants.


    But aside from the technical differences, Apple is in a unique position due to its business model. It doesn’t want or need to track transactions. It doesn’t want or need to be the payment processor. It isn’t restricted by carrier agreements, since it fully controls the hardware. Google, although first to the market by a matter of years, is still hamstrung by device manufacturers and carriers. Softcard is hamstrung by the usual greed and idiocy of mobile phone providers. PayPal has no footprint on devices.
    This is a long-term investment by Apple, and possibly one of the most important since it first built the iTunes Store. Apple is putting its muscle behind improving the user experience of making payments, and using that to sell more devices. It won’t make much directly from Apple Pay now. But as more people use supported devices and push more merchants to support the user experience, odds are that those small per-transaction fees will grow into a significant source of revenue.


    Using systems like Apple Pay also reduces merchant risk.
    You might not know it, but merchants pay the costs of fraudulent purchases, and online providers pay higher per-transaction fees due to the higher risk of not seeing the card. Issuing banks pay the costs of re-issuing compromised cards. (You’ll notice VISA, MasterCard, and American Express don’t seem to pay much of anything.) No wonder merchants and card issuers like Apple Pay: it reduces their risks and costs.


    Apple Pay is simply more secure for merchants and payment networks, and more private for consumers.
    Better user experience, better security, and better privacy, all backed with a business model that makes sense for nearly everyone involved (except merchants and carriers who want to track your behavior): I think we can see where this is headed.

    It is far from an unbiased site, but seems well written.

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    I have a feeling more and more retailers will begin taking Apple Pay which in turn means you can use Google Wallet more places if that's your thing. It's a win/win.
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    Correct. NFC is just a delivery mechanism and it doesn't matter how it works under the hood (what Google Wallet or Apple Pay do). The only thing needed in the retail stores is the NFC readers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcrunner View Post
    Correct. NFC is just a delivery mechanism and it doesn't matter how it works under the hood (what Google Wallet or Apple Pay do). The only thing needed in the retail stores is the NFC readers.
    An NFC reader without a payment system doesn't do a lot of good. And an NFC reader by itself doesn't mean the retailer has agreements with the various payment systems.

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    If they don't have agreements, they don't accept Visa, MC, AE, etc. and so have no need for a reader.

    Apple Pay is between Apple and the banks. The merchants just deal with the readers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacFrog View Post
    I have a feeling more and more retailers will begin taking Apple Pay which in turn means you can use Google Wallet more places if that's your thing. It's a win/win.
    This is why I was asking, I really want more stores to add NFC readers so I can use my google wallet app and mastercard tap and pay. I hope there's no issues

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcrunner View Post
    If they don't have agreements, they don't accept Visa, MC, AE, etc. and so have no need for a reader.

    Apple Pay is between Apple and the banks. The merchants just deal with the readers.
    Right. So let's say a merchant has an agreement with Visa, MC, etc, and has the readers to go along with those agreements. That means they accept google wallet?

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    They don't get to pick what they accept...it doesn't concern them. The only thing they could do (I assume based on Best Buy et. al) is decide to disable or enable the NFC transfer on the readers. They can't block Google Wallet, but allow Apple Pay, for example or vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcrunner View Post
    They don't get to pick what they accept...it doesn't concern them. The only thing they could do (I assume based on Best Buy et. al) is decide to disable or enable the NFC transfer on the readers. They can't block Google Wallet, but allow Apple Pay, for example or vice versa.
    Interesting. So anywhere today that accepts GoogleWallet or MasterCard PayPass will automatically accept ApplePay? Did not know that.

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