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Thread: AT&T to Gain 4G Voice May 23?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RF9 View Post
    I disagree. I believe most places did have 3G, at least cities. I know out here we had 3G for about 5 years, but we were an early city to get it. When iPhone came out, it was the only one AT&T sold that didn't support 3G.
    The reason was battery life. The iPhone was a large touch screen device and there were concerns about enough power and putting 3G in just wasn't helping. Also when they started development of the iPhone over 2 years earlier, non-3G chips were what was more available.
    This is the same reason LTE came to iPhone so late, power requirements. Android solved the problem by making the phones huge to accommodate battery. Those earlier large Android phones wasn't to make a large screen device, it was to engineer a larger battery into the phone. The market trend toward larger screen phones was almost a happy accident along with effective marketing.
    Here's AT&T's coverage map from June 2007. The blue areas are 3G, everything else is EDGE or roaming. Battery life was another major issue I'm sure, that's why I said AT&T's lack of 3G coverage was only one of the reasons why Apple didn't include 3G in the first iPhone. Compared to Verizon's 3G coverage at the time, AT&T had almost none.



    Here's a quote from an interview with Steve Jobs and Randall Stephenson from right before the first iPhone was released:

    "Q: The critics were effusive in praise for the iPhone, but had issues with the iPhone and the EDGE network, which they say is slower than others. How do you respond?

    Stephenson: With a device like this, you need a broad based network that covers every nook and cranny of the country. That's EDGE. It does a nice job. It also has Wi-Fi, which is better than anything you'll find in any handset. Between the two, you'll get a good experience. We're selling tens of thousands of Blackberry devices, which are all Edge phones, and they perform well. We've tested this nine ways to Sunday, and we think the experience will be great.

    Jobs: The iPhone switches to any known Wi-Fi network when it senses one. What we've found is that Edge is terrific for e-mail and basic Internet usage. When people need more speed, there's Wi-Fi. The nice thing about Wi-Fi is it's way faster than 3G. People are in areas with Wi-Fi much more than they think. I walk into work with the iPhone, and it instantly switches to a Wi-Fi network. If I'm walking down the street in downtown Palo Alto, the iPhone will switch from EDGE to Wi-Fi. It's very fluid.

    EDGE will be faster than people have read in the reviews. Some of the criticism of EDGE is more theoretical. Blackberrys use EDGE, and in many cases is slower, because our software is better.

    Stephenson: I carry a 3G phone and the iPhone, and in terms of the general experience, it's comparable. I'm not concerned."


    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/...enson-qa_N.htm

    I doubt the CEO of AT&T wanted to insult his own company's network in an interview, but he was essentially saying that EDGE was way more widespread than 3G, which was one of the factors in why they went EDGE-only. It was probably for a number of different reasons.

  2. #32
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    I stand corrected.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    It's pretty easy to see the differences between 3G and 4G. Look at eastern Oregon. It's clearly a lighter shade of orange than most of the country. It's a little easier to see on AT&T's mobile maps, which show LTE coverage at a national level. I think it also depends on your computer monitor and settings, since different screens can display colors differently:



    http://m.att.com/shopmobile/coverage...r-results.html
    Yes, you are right. I looked on my mobile phone and it looks VERY DIFFERENT. The colors, are so different, the shades are MUCH sharper, clearer, and easier to read...My PC monitor sucks! I reset all the monitor setting back to factory, and the map changed from "super light orange" to darker shades of orange just like that, looked more similar to what my phone was showing. Although still not the same, so time for a new PC monitor. I bought this PC monitor in like 2005, for like $20 bucks, so it's old and cheap as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    How would the HSPA+ fallback help with VoLTE coverage? AT&T's not implementing VoHSPA. They're definitely going to have regular voice fallback (UMTS) for many years after VoLTE has been rolled out. It's going to take a while for it to become reliable and widespread enough to be useful.
    HSPA+ always helps even if not being used. I know VOLTE is not going to be used over HSPA+, but since everyone will soon be on LTE 24/7, this means the HSPA+ network will be freeded up big time. With VOLTE, this means anyone with 4G phone will be on LTE 24/7. This means HSPA+ network traffic will drop by a good 60% +++ (or however many people own a 4G phone. I've even seen 4G LTE prepaid phones for $49 bucks so they are pretty common nowdays).

    So let's say in May 2014 at 5pm in a Major City there are currently:
    -100,000 people using 4G LTE DATA.
    -90,000 people using 4G LTE for phone calls ON (VOLTE)
    -Total people now on LTE: 190,000 people in a major city during peak hours.
    -Toal people now on HSPA+ : Hardly anyone. Everyone is on LTE for voice + data. This means HSPA+ will be a GREAT thing to switch to if your LTE network performance is not performing well.

    NORMALLY, those 90,000 people would be on HSPA+. Now, they will be moved from HSPA+ over to LTE. In my example, in one city, during peak hours, this means 90,000 LESS PEOPLE are using HSPA+ during peak hours. So the HSPA+ network will be less loaded. It's going from 3 lanes on the highway (current HSPA+ network) and then now making it 9 lines on the highway (how HSPA+ network will be when everything now runs over LTE)

    In a heavily congested areas such as concerts, events, etc, I have tried to run speed tests, but there too many people in a small area using the LTE network. I ran the speed test on LTE and got 3mbps and a high ping. So I knew it was overloaded in this area, everyone appeared to have a smartphone with 4G. I "turned LTE off", and it went to HSPA+, which there was A LOT less people using HSPA+. I ran a speed test on just HSPA+, and it's got 6mbps, and had much better ping. This lead me to believe that the ATT LTE network in the area I was in, at the time, was overloaded. I switched to HSPA+ and had faster data, so if you feel like LTE is overloaded just switch over to HSPA+, which will soon have a MAJOR reduction in traffic on HSPA+ as everyone will be using LTE for data+ voice. That's why I think this will BENEFIT the HSPA+ network, it's traffic on it will be HEAVILY reduced.

  4. #34
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    This begs the question why AT&T isn't testing deployment of PCell. I would think it would be a no-brainer for congestion.
    Right now only DISH Network is deploying PCell for wireless TV and internet.

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    Hopefully voice quality will eventually improve to where it sounds like a bad landline! Seriously, that's one thing about mobile that is a step backwards--call quality is a lot worse than the old wired days where it sounded like you were standing next to someone in the same room chatting. A lot of businesses now use VOIP systems and you have the same problem there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    How would the HSPA+ fallback help with VoLTE coverage? AT&T's not implementing VoHSPA. They're definitely going to have regular voice fallback (UMTS) for many years after VoLTE has been rolled out. It's going to take a while for it to become reliable and widespread enough to be useful.
    The HSPA network supports voice by default. In fact, EVERY type of cellular technology has supported voice except for two weird ones that I know about: EvDO, and (initially) LTE. When you currently make a call, your phone does fall back to the HSPA network for voice, and you can use HSPA for data while on your voice call.

    EvDO didn't support voice because it was never designed for voice. LTE initially didn't support voice because it was designed as a completely packet switched technology as opposed to circuit switched. VoLTE brings voice capabilities to the LTE network.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt110
    So they are skipping AMR-WB and going straight to VoLTE?
    AMR is a codec, a way of turning the sounds of a voice into bits, so that they can be transmitted across a network. AMR has many different bitrates, and AMR-WB (wideband) is an update to the AMR codecs, which has the ability to use higher bitrates than regular AMR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptiv...-Rate_Wideband

    VoLTE is just a way of letting the LTE network carry voice (by creating data packets from the data that the AMR-WB codec generates based on what sounds are going into the microphone). But you can probably also use the older AMR codec with VoLTE as well. The data being carried by the LTE network is really independent of the codec that's generating it.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh177 View Post
    Yes, you are right. I looked on my mobile phone and it looks VERY DIFFERENT. The colors, are so different, the shades are MUCH sharper, clearer, and easier to read...My PC monitor sucks! I reset all the monitor setting back to factory, and the map changed from "super light orange" to darker shades of orange just like that, looked more similar to what my phone was showing. Although still not the same, so time for a new PC monitor. I bought this PC monitor in like 2005, for like $20 bucks, so it's old and cheap as hell.


    HSPA+ always helps even if not being used. I know VOLTE is not going to be used over HSPA+, but since everyone will soon be on LTE 24/7, this means the HSPA+ network will be freeded up big time. With VOLTE, this means anyone with 4G phone will be on LTE 24/7. This means HSPA+ network traffic will drop by a good 60% +++ (or however many people own a 4G phone. I've even seen 4G LTE prepaid phones for $49 bucks so they are pretty common nowdays).

    So let's say in May 2014 at 5pm in a Major City there are currently:
    -100,000 people using 4G LTE DATA.
    -90,000 people using 4G LTE for phone calls ON (VOLTE)
    -Total people now on LTE: 190,000 people in a major city during peak hours.
    -Toal people now on HSPA+ : Hardly anyone. Everyone is on LTE for voice + data. This means HSPA+ will be a GREAT thing to switch to if your LTE network performance is not performing well.

    NORMALLY, those 90,000 people would be on HSPA+. Now, they will be moved from HSPA+ over to LTE. In my example, in one city, during peak hours, this means 90,000 LESS PEOPLE are using HSPA+ during peak hours. So the HSPA+ network will be less loaded. It's going from 3 lanes on the highway (current HSPA+ network) and then now making it 9 lines on the highway (how HSPA+ network will be when everything now runs over LTE)

    In a heavily congested areas such as concerts, events, etc, I have tried to run speed tests, but there too many people in a small area using the LTE network. I ran the speed test on LTE and got 3mbps and a high ping. So I knew it was overloaded in this area, everyone appeared to have a smartphone with 4G. I "turned LTE off", and it went to HSPA+, which there was A LOT less people using HSPA+. I ran a speed test on just HSPA+, and it's got 6mbps, and had much better ping. This lead me to believe that the ATT LTE network in the area I was in, at the time, was overloaded. I switched to HSPA+ and had faster data, so if you feel like LTE is overloaded just switch over to HSPA+, which will soon have a MAJOR reduction in traffic on HSPA+ as everyone will be using LTE for data+ voice. That's why I think this will BENEFIT the HSPA+ network, it's traffic on it will be HEAVILY reduced.
    It is extremely highly unlikely that any current devices on AT&T's network will be able to use VoLTE, even if the device is technically capable of it. Most likely is that only newly sold devices launched after 5/23 will be capable of accessing AT&T's VoLTE network. Your theory about all of these HSPA+ voice users suddenly using and congesting the LTE network from VoLTE usage is, in all likelihood, a moot point.
    Last edited by BMWDude49120; 05-03-2014 at 11:12 AM.
    I do not represent any company or other entity. Anything I post in these forums or write on this site are my thoughts and opinions only. I make every attempt to be 100% accurate, but I am human and do make mistakes from time to time.

  8. #38
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    It could be that they meant the device itself is HD Voice capable (meaning it has 3+ noise canceling mics) and the device also supports VoLTE. Manufacturers may release feature phones that support VoLTE, but don't support HD voice (e.g. don't have to have the noise canceling mics).
    Your results may vary. Network performance differs per user location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CA View Post

    Notice that HD voice and VoLTE are two separate things. VoLTE may not be high defination at all, it might just be a change to voice that uses packets.
    VoLTE most certainly is HD voice (AMR-WB). It's differentiated because AMR-WB is merely the voice codec and is possible over circuit-switched GSM and UMTS, and VoLTE is a huge suite of products that just happens to include voice - and most importantly for telephone calls, it is end-to-end over LTE and never switched out of it's packet. Outside of strictly voice, you're going to see RCS and IMS services attached to VoLTE.




    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by awj223 View Post
    The HSPA network supports voice by default. In fact, EVERY type of cellular technology has supported voice except for two weird ones that I know about: EvDO, and (initially) LTE. When you currently make a call, your phone does fall back to the HSPA network for voice, and you can use HSPA for data while on your voice call.

    EvDO didn't support voice because it was never designed for voice. LTE initially didn't support voice because it was designed as a completely packet switched technology as opposed to circuit switched. VoLTE brings voice capabilities to the LTE network.
    HSPA doesn't support voice, UMTS (W-CDMA) does. HSPA and HSPA+ are data technologies. UMTS/W-CDMA supports simultaneous voice and data, but the voice is transmitted over UMTS while the data is transmitted over HSPA/HSPA+. With CDMA phones, the voice is transmitted over the 1x network because EvDO doesn't support voice. Some phones have dual chips which allow EvDO data to be used while on a voice call (SVDO).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloTF View Post
    VoLTE most certainly is HD voice (AMR-WB). It's differentiated because AMR-WB is merely the voice codec and is possible over circuit-switched GSM and UMTS, and VoLTE is a huge suite of products that just happens to include voice - and most importantly for telephone calls, it is end-to-end over LTE and never switched out of it's packet. Outside of strictly voice, you're going to see RCS and IMS services attached to VoLTE.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    That's what I thought, because T-Mobile has had HD Voice enabled over UMTS for at least a year now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    HSPA doesn't support voice, UMTS (W-CDMA) does. HSPA and HSPA+ are data technologies. UMTS/W-CDMA supports simultaneous voice and data, but the voice is transmitted over UMTS while the data is transmitted over HSPA/HSPA+. With CDMA phones, the voice is transmitted over the 1x network because EvDO doesn't support voice. Some phones have dual chips which allow EvDO data to be used while on a voice call (SVDO).
    Okay, fine, but all phones that use HSPA+ can use UMTS simultaneously, no second transceiver needed.

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