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Thread: AT&T to Gain 4G Voice May 23?

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    AT&T to Gain 4G Voice May 23?

    Get your wallets ready, time to buy a new 4G voice phone!



    AT&T is reportedly gearing up to launch voice over LTE (VoLTE) by the end of the month, beating LTE first mover Verizon Wireless to the punch.
    Sources tell Engadget that AT&T Inc. (NYSE: T) will launch VoLTE, the 4G voice service, in Chicago and Minneapolis on May 23. (See VoLTE: So Close You Can Hear It.)
    There have been a number of delays and false starts for VoLTE as the operators have worked to make sure it will be on par with 3G voice, but all the big four are planning service this year. AT&T has said that its VoLTE will include high-definition voice at launch, but it hasn't confirmed whether features like video and group chat will be enabled over the IP network. (See WhatsApp Threatens Carrier VoLTE, Verizon VoLTE Testing Spotted, AT&T Amplifies Its 4G Voice, and Sprint Taps BroadSoft for VoLTE Transition.)
    The Asus Padfone X is among the first smartphones that will be compatible with VoLTE, so others will likely have to wait to take advantage of the crisper calling feature. AT&T hasn't confirmed launch details or the vendors working with it to deploy VoLTE. (See AT&T's VoLTE Phones Start Trickling Out and AT&T Hears Call of VoLTE in 2014.)
    — Sarah Reedy, Senior Editor, Light Reading
    http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/v.../d/d-id/708896

    Hopefully the first question won't be about pre-pay.

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    Would this be the same as HD voice too?


    via the HoFo App

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    Quote Originally Posted by obeythelaw View Post
    Would this be the same as HD voice too?
    "AT&T has said that its VoLTE will include high-definition voice at launch,..."

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    So that's what HD stands for!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Current: iPhone 5S, 32 GB in Space Grey
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    Previous (Newest -> Oldest): iPhone 4S, Blackberry Bold 9930, Blackberry Bold 9650, iPhone 4, HTC Droid Incredible, Palm Pre Plus, Samsung Alias 2, LG VX8300, LG VX8100, LG VX8100, LG VX6000 (First phone!)

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    I'm curious will this include AMR-WB over their HSPA network?

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    For VoLTE to work does both parties have to be on a VoLTE session?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprke81 View Post
    For VoLTE to work does both parties have to be on a VoLTE session?
    No. VoLTE is just between the phone and tower. From the tower it's all over the internet and what ever protocol ATT likes.

    Just bought an Oppo Find 7, time read the specs and see if it supports it.

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    AT&T is not ready yet!! This will overload their LTE network like CRAZY! They are already struggling right now with overloaded and congested LTE network with just DATA USERS ALONE, how can they going to run now both data AND voice over LTE?? Normally once a voice call is made, it reverts back to HSPA+, therefore freeing up more LTE. Putting EVERYONE on LTE will overload the LTE network even more, and will causes many dropped calls, issues, etc. I like the idea a lot, but AT&T and Verizon are BOTH NOT ready yet.

    I LOVE the idea of VOLTE, but AT&T AND Verizon both need to address their LTE network problems in major cities where they are overloaded.

    This is the AT&T LTE NETWORK:
    Attachment 108334

    Pretty small LTE network nationwide. They need to improve their current LTE (and HSPA) network in both size and capacity before VOLTE. They need to add more cell sites to address overloaded LTE networks (AGAIN, so does Verizon, this is NOT just an AT&T problem).

    EXAMPLE: If 150K people are on 4G during peak hours in a major city at 5pm (but only 100K on 4G LTE as not everyone has a 4G LTE phone), and 100K users on HSPA+ on phone calls during peak hours in a major city at 5pm, well, if you put them all over VOLTE, then that's now 200K people on the 4G LTE network at 5pm, instead of the original 100K on the 4G LTE network normally at 5PM. It will literally DOUBLED the number of people on LTE at all times, especially during peak hours.. Don't you think that will affect the LTE network? Won't there be quite a difference with having 100K people on the LTE network VS having 200K people on the LTE network?

    Verizon is NOT READY YET EITHER I don't think, IMO, even with their larger 4G LTE network:
    Last edited by Josh177; 05-02-2014 at 12:00 AM.

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    Those AT&T maps are old. They look like the quite out-of-date ones that Verizon puts up for "comparison".

    LTE:
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    HSPA+:
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    Voice also just doesn't use much data. Even if it uses 25kbps, that's only 11MB per hour. Talking on the phone 3 hours a day for a month wouldn't even use 1GB.

    More importantly, the more traffic they move off UMTS, the sooner they can refarm that spectrum. The number of LTE calls per MHz of spectrum is probably a lot more than UMTS is giving them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh177 View Post
    AT&T is not ready yet!! This will overload their LTE network like CRAZY! They are already struggling right now with overloaded and congested LTE network with just DATA USERS ALONE, how can they going to run now both data AND voice over LTE?? Normally once a voice call is made, it reverts back to HSPA+, therefore freeing up more LTE. Putting EVERYONE on LTE will overload the LTE network even more, and will causes many dropped calls, issues, etc. I like the idea a lot, but AT&T is NOT ready.

    I mean AT&T'S "4G" HSPA+ network is SMALLER than Verizon's LTE coverage (how that's possible baffles me. AT&T must have started to get lazy. Take a look at the pics below to show the huge size difference). If Verizon isn't ready yet, then how would AT&T's much smaller network be ready yet? AT&T never even finished their HSPA+ network and now they want to attempt VOLTE? The are simply not ready.

    I LOVE the idea of VOLTE, but AT&T hasn't even truly finished their HSPA+ network... You can tell by the maps AT&T never actually finished their HSPA+ rollout, there are still MANY 3G/EDGE areas.

    This is the AT&T LTE NETWORK:
    Attachment 108334

    Pretty small LTE network nationwide. They need to improve their current LTE (and HSPA) network in both size and capacity before VOLTE.

    This is the Verizon LTE network:
    Attachment 108336
    Verizon isn't even ready yet even with their much larger LTE network as they also need to adress overloaded LTE network issues.

    While this is the AT&T HSPA+ network. Which is MUCH smaller than it should be.
    Attachment 108335

    Verizon 4G LTE is actually LARGER than AT&T's HSPA+ network... I would have never guessed that.

    In 2013, AT&T claimed it had 2,000 more 4G cities than Verizon. Yet in 2014, it's the opposite and Verizon 4G LTE covers MUCH more than AT&T'S "4G" HSPA+ network covers.... How did AT&T go from 2,000 cities ahead to NOW BEHIND Verizon??? How did that happen? Did AT&T literally just STOP building it's HSPA+ network? This is not to bash AT&T, it just means they are NOT READY. They need to finish building out their HSPA+ and LTE network, which they claim is done but they are NOT even close to down. AT&T still has way too much EDGE and 3G on their network, as the AT&T network should be fully 100% covered in HSPA+ by now, but it's not. Why? No execuse for this.. Verizon basically turned almost all their data network into 4G LTE, so why can't AT&T even make their network into the smaller "3.5G" HSPA+?

    Josh: Thankfully for the rest of us we'd don't have the same network problems as you do. AT&T sucks in your area. I'd say it's time to move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sashaP View Post
    Those AT&T maps are old. They look like the quite out-of-date ones that Verizon puts up for "comparison".

    LTE:
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    HSPA+:
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    Voice also just doesn't use much data. Even if it uses 25kbps, that's only 11MB per hour. Talking on the phone 3 hours a day for a month wouldn't even use 1GB.

    More importantly, the more traffic they move off UMTS, the sooner they can refarm that spectrum. The number of LTE calls per MHz of spectrum is probably a lot more than UMTS is giving them.
    Where did you get those AT&T data pictures? The only maps are in Orange on the AT&T website.

    Also I used the App called "Coverage?" which says the maps where updated in Jan 2014 (so yeah it's a few months old).

    If that REALLY is how large the AT&T HSPA+ network is, then that's AMAZING. I love it. . Where can find you find the HSPA+ coverage maps?

    If that's the actual AT&T data map, then it's larger than Verizon's LTE network. That's good. HSPA+ data network is PERFECT. Sometimes I like HSPA+ more than LTE. (I've gotten 12mbps download on AT&T HSPA+ network in 2012 with 5 bars, yet with 2 bars of LTE I only got 7mbps). So HSPA+ is plenty fast.

    Also yeah, voice doesn't really use much data. Although since more and more people will have 4G phones, multiply that by tens of millions of people.

    So let's say for example in Denver everyone is using the AT&T 4G phone. Right now, it's already overloaded. So if they added everyone onto LTE, it would be even more crowed.

    Example: In Denver, on AT&T LTE network at 5pm there are 90,000 people using AT&T 4G data network. Let's say normally at 5pm there is also an average of 50,000 people on phone calls on AT&T'S HSPA+ network. Well, if they put on all those people on VOLTE, that would be 90,000 people on AT&T's 4G LTE at 5pm in Denver PLUS now add 70,000 people onto the LTE network also at 5pm for now for voice. When you add in all that amount of people using the phone, it adds up a lot. I know everyone not everyone in Denver area has a 4G phone and is on AT&T, that's why my numbers where only where in the tens of thousands during rush hour time. (Denver has 635,000 people, and in the Denver Metro area there is 3 million population)

    Note: same example applies to Verizon. I've read that VOLTE on either network would cause more dropped calls, connection problems, etc, as it will overload their 4G LTE networks..That's just what I read, and the explantion I read made sense.
    Last edited by Josh177; 05-02-2014 at 12:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh177 View Post
    Where did you get those AT&T data pictures? The only maps are in Orange on the AT&T website.

    Also I used the App called "Coverage?" which says the maps where updated in Jan 2014 (so yeah it's a few months old).

    If that REALLY is how large the AT&T HSPA+ network is, then that's AMAZING. I love it. . Where can find you find the HSPA+ coverage maps?

    If that's the actual AT&T data map, then it's larger than Verizon's LTE network. That's good. HSPA+ data network is PERFECT. Sometimes I like HSPA+ more than LTE. (I've gotten 12mbps download on AT&T HSPA+ network in 2012 with 5 bars, yet with 2 bars of LTE I only got 7mbps). So HSPA+ is plenty fast.

    Also yeah, voice doesn't really use much data. Although since more and more people will have 4G phones, multiply that by tens of millions of people.

    So let's say for example in Denver everyone is using the AT&T 4G phone. Right now, it's already overloaded. So if they added everyone onto LTE, it would be even more crowed.

    Example: In Denver, on AT&T LTE network at 5pm there are 90,000 people using AT&T 4G data network. Let's say normally at 5pm there is also an average of 50,000 people on phone calls on AT&T'S HSPA+ network. Well, if they put on all those people on VOLTE, that would be 90,000 people on AT&T's 4G LTE at 5pm in Denver PLUS now add 70,000 people onto the LTE network also at 5pm for now for voice. When you add in all that amount of people using the phone, it adds up a lot. I know everyone not everyone in Denver area has a 4G phone and is on AT&T, that's why my numbers where only where in the tens of thousands during rush hour time. (Denver has 635,000 people, and in the Denver Metro area there is 3 million population)

    Note: same example applies to Verizon. I've read that VOLTE on either network would cause more dropped calls, connection problems, etc, as it will overload their 4G LTE networks..That's just what I read, and the explantion I read made sense.
    I'm sure they're going to implement it so it uses the least amount of data as possible while also still sounding clear. VoLTE is still several years away from replacing the current setup. None of the carriers have announced plans to shut down their 3G network, and most haven't even announced plans to shut down their 2G networks (just AT&T so far that I know of, and it's not until 2017). If I had to guess, 3G (and the current voice setup) is going to be around until the mid to late 2020s. Just think: EDGE started rolling out in 2003 in the United States, and it's still around 11 years later, and is going to be around until at least 2017. T-Mobile hasn't mentioned anything about shutting down their EDGE/GPRS network yet, so theirs could be around even past 2017.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh177 View Post
    Where did you get those AT&T data pictures? The only maps are in Orange on the AT&T website.

    Also I used the App called "Coverage?" which says the maps where updated in Jan 2014 (so yeah it's a few months old).

    If that REALLY is how large the AT&T HSPA+ network is, then that's AMAZING. I love it. . Where can find you find the HSPA+ coverage maps?

    If that's the actual AT&T data map, then it's larger than Verizon's LTE network. That's good. HSPA+ data network is PERFECT. Sometimes I like HSPA+ more than LTE. (I've gotten 12mbps download on AT&T HSPA+ network in 2012 with 5 bars, yet with 2 bars of LTE I only got 7mbps). So HSPA+ is plenty fast.

    Also yeah, voice doesn't really use much data. Although since more and more people will have 4G phones, multiply that by tens of millions of people.

    So let's say for example in Denver everyone is using the AT&T 4G phone. Right now, it's already overloaded. So if they added everyone onto LTE, it would be even more crowed.

    Example: In Denver, on AT&T LTE network at 5pm there are 90,000 people using AT&T 4G data network. Let's say normally at 5pm there is also an average of 50,000 people on phone calls on AT&T'S HSPA+ network. Well, if they put on all those people on VOLTE, that would be 90,000 people on AT&T's 4G LTE at 5pm in Denver PLUS now add 70,000 people onto the LTE network also at 5pm for now for voice. When you add in all that amount of people using the phone, it adds up a lot. I know everyone not everyone in Denver area has a 4G phone and is on AT&T, that's why my numbers where only where in the tens of thousands during rush hour time. (Denver has 635,000 people, and in the Denver Metro area there is 3 million population)

    Note: same example applies to Verizon. I've read that VOLTE on either network would cause more dropped calls, connection problems, etc, as it will overload their 4G LTE networks..That's just what I read, and the explantion I read made sense.
    Those maps are more than a few months old. AT&T's HSPA+ and LTE coverage was bigger in January. It's probably a lazily made app meant to make money off an area where ads pay highly (wireless).

    The maps I posted are from aiowireless.com (AT&T's low-cost unlimited service). Though even on AT&T's site, you can see the HSPA+ coverage extent.

    Name:  HRfeyYd.jpg
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    The main orange color on that map is HSPA+.

    Where are you getting this data for usage on AT&T's network?

    Frankly, In November, Root Metrics tested in Denver and found AT&T to offer 14.8Mbps on average. That doesn't seem overloaded. You've read that VoLTE on AT&T or Verizon would lead to all these problems where? What explanation did you read? To make a compelling argument, you have to cite sources. Maybe there's a good report out there, but stating that readings exist isn't the same as linking to them.

    VoLTE is a great step forward. In order to reuse the spectrum currently used by UMTS, they need to migrate traffic off of UMTS channels. VoLTE will allow them to vastly improve efficiency for voice traffic while speeding the transition of UMTS channels to LTE. The transition of UMTS channels to LTE will mean more capacity.

    I'm sure they're going to implement it so it uses the least amount of data as possible while also still sounding clear. VoLTE is still several years away from replacing the current setup. None of the carriers have announced plans to shut down their 3G network, and most haven't even announced plans to shut down their 2G networks (just AT&T so far that I know of, and it's not until 2017). If I had to guess, 3G (and the current voice setup) is going to be around until the mid to late 2020s. Just think: EDGE started rolling out in 2003 in the United States, and it's still around 11 years later, and is going to be around until at least 2017. T-Mobile hasn't mentioned anything about shutting down their EDGE/GPRS network yet, so theirs could be around even past 2017.
    UMTS will be around for a while, but how much spectrum is allocated to it will change. As traffic shifts to LTE, AT&T can migrate spectrum from UMTS to LTE. With around 100MHz of spectrum and around 20MHz dedicated to LTE in most markets, one has to assume that UMTS is the bulk of the rest right now with GSM occupying a smaller bit. If AT&T can free up a pair of UMTS channels in a market, they can add capacity to their LTE network. It's not just about when something can be shut down, but when something consumes the bulk of the spectrum holdings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sashaP View Post
    To make a compelling argument, you have to cite sources. Maybe there's a good report out there, but stating that readings exist isn't the same as linking to them.

    VoLTE is a great step forward. In order to reuse the spectrum currently used by UMTS, they need to migrate traffic off of UMTS channels. VoLTE will allow them to vastly improve efficiency for voice traffic while speeding the transition of UMTS channels to LTE. The transition of UMTS channels to LTE will mean more capacity.
    The HSPA+ maps look better than I expected, it's hard to read the new ORANGE maps as "4G" HSPA+ looks very similar to 3G, especially zoomed out like that. I always assumed most of it was 3G. That's why I miss the blue maps. Although AIO shows better maps and now I know AT&T has EXCELLENT HSPA+ coverage, which is great. Their HSPA+ coverage is larger than Verizon's LTE network (I believe judging from the looks of the map).

    As for sources, I don't remember exactly where I read it, I just thought it was a common complaint about VOLTE? Even members on Howard Forums have talked about it, I even saw someone say something about it "overloading the LTE" network just last week or so forgot which thread. There are a few threads on it, but here's on thread on howard forums itself that I just found talking about possible overloading the LTE network, VOLTE not being as reliable as regular 2G calls,and more chances of dropped calls, etc.
    Are they true? I dunno. But comments like that are the reason why I wonderd if VOLTE would be a good or bad thing overall.

    Here is the thread:
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...ight=volte+bad

    Quotes from Howard forum members in that thread:

    "Voice over LTE sounds like a bad idea. It sounds like a bad idea because if the LTE network gets clogged with data requests from internet users, that could lead to a break up of voice conversations. Just like when you have Vonage and you torrent something, the vonage conversation goes to hell. I think it would be a good idea to leave the voice and data separate, and not transmit our calls using data"

    "I just don't have faith that it will be as reliable as good old 2G (or 3G) voice calls especially in fringe coverage areas. But the expectation is that you'll just fall back as you do today from 3G to GSM."

    "Also you have to understand your calls are going to be used over data, a smartphone consistently use data all the time, wether or not they put voice as the priority, there still would be disruption. I don't think Volte is a good idea for right now, they need to reconsider the idea once LTE is as reliable as 2G."


    So there are other people on howard formums who think it's a bad idea... After doing some more searching, I agree, it's probably a BETTER idea. Although there still are cons too it, and also MANY PROS too it also. Cons are it won't be as reliable as regular calls are right now as LTE simply isn't as reliable. This means dropped calls are more likely (until the master it which could take years). A simply voice call over 3G/2G or 1X is solid reliable, while LTE is not. That could be an issue for some, relability will suffer but sound quality will improve. This is VERY SIMILAR to the whole "ANALOG VS DIGITAL" back a while ago. Analog has worse call quality, while Digital sounds much better, although some could argue that analog was more reliable even with it's poorer sound quality and Analog worked excellent in rural areas, while Digital did not (and still struggles to this day). Although even now, 8 years or so later after Analog was shut down, Analog would still *probably* work better and travel further in rural areas for just plain voice than Digital would even in 2014. So same goes for VOLTE, it will take a while before it's as reliable and the regular voice call system is.

    That is not to say VOLTE is bad, no, as I did more research on it and it sounds like a great thing. HD calls is an excellent thing and I look forward to VOLTE, but I know there *might* be a few cons too it (like what the users above said) but overall it's mostly pros. After viewing the AIO maps showing ATT has excellent and lots of HSPA+, I'm more confident in VOLTE working great on the AT&T network, especially since there is lots of HSPA+ coverage to fall back on if needed.
    Last edited by Josh177; 05-02-2014 at 03:49 AM.

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    AT&T to Gain 4G Voice May 23?

    I believe my iPhone 5S supports VOLTE so I should be good to go. I hope AT&T's VOLTE comes to the Philly Burbs sooner than LTE did.


    Sent from my iPad Air.

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