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Thread: Bringing back unlimited data fight

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    Yes, those are the two congestion points you're going to have. We came through the backhaul issue 3 or 4 years ago on both carriers. AT&T had massive backhaul problems, even in major metro areas, where their backhaul couldn't drive the air interfaces to saturation, so a mess got even worse. We are beyond that. Towers in urban and suburban areas all have gig fiber. Sprint is the only carrier that currently has enough empty spectrum to set up LTE that could get close to saturating a gig fiber link, but they can move to 10gig fiber if they need to. Some rural areas are using microwave, but even that can push more than enough bandwidth is needed out on top of some mountain in the middle of nowhere to supply a healthy amount of bandwidth to a single 10x10 of LTE and a few EVDO channels.

    Even though most consumers don't have direct access to fiber, almost everything we do is fiber-based. U-Verse and cable both push fiber capable of multi-gigabit performance within a mile of the end user, and most cell phone users are within a mile of the cell site they are using, which is running gig fiber.

    All that leaves the air interfaces being saturated as the cause of congestion.
    Thanks! It actually makes sense to me, even though I'm not especially well-versed in that kind of tech.
    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    But then you have to explain how gigabit fiber backhaul can't carry what is realistically 300-500mbps at most of data traffic, even on newly upgraded Band 4 sites, more like 200mbps on sites that are only running Band 13 (this is account for the fact that a sector can rarely put out anywhere close to it's theoretical maximum speed). Gigabit is gigabit, even gigabit Ethernet is good for 900+mbps.
    So, aside from the blunt force trauma of network congestion, how might tcmits or JQ Public independently measure the actual percent saturation level of the air interfaces of a tower – from the air and on the ground – without access to the tower site and without knowing the load that the fiber is passing up to the antennas?

    Can any of the mapping services, for example, provide this information?

    IOW, if I wanted, for myself and by myself, to ascertain the percent saturation level of any particular random tower site – without knowing anything at all about either the site or its backhaul except its geographic coordinates and what I could see from the ground, how could I obtain that measurement?

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    Last edited by TC_Mits; 02-11-2014 at 06:48 AM.
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  2. #182
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    I don't think that the carrier would allow such statistics to be available to JQ Public.

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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by veriztd View Post
    I don't think that the carrier would allow such statistics to be available to JQ Public.

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    yes good luck getting att letting loose that info.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    So, aside from the blunt force trauma of network congestion, how might tcmits or JQ Public independently measure the actual percent saturation level of the air interfaces of a tower – from the air and on the ground – without access to the tower site and without knowing the load that the fiber is passing up to the antennas?
    That's not available to us. However, what you are supposing is that carriers are paying to install fiber, and aren't running gig fiber, which is basically the standard now. That just doesn't make any sense. Gig is the standard these days, even when the air interfaces can saturate far less. Some sites, if they are microwave hub sites in some more rural areas might be getting close to that, although in that case you're looking at far less air interface capacity on any given tower, as you're not looking at Band 4 LTE, and won't be for some time.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMJB0188 View Post
    The old $30/mo smartphone unlimited plan will NOT affect AT&T's network in any way, shape, or form nowadays. There are not enough people left with the unlimited plan. There is probably less than 1% of people on AT&T's network with the unlimited plan. Myself included.

    The plan it completely worthless since it throttles at 5GB. Only nice thing about it is, there are no overages. It didn't throttle me this month until 5.5GB.
    I'm still on it here. I'm always under 5…barely over 4 even, but that's because I pretty much am surrounded by Wifi (including at work) so responsibly make use of it. I really would like tethering, though. Last summer I had MyWi and did it a lot with my iPad and never heard anything. I used my laptop to download 1 thing when my internet was down and got a text message I think that same day.

    As an I.T. professional I am very curious at some of their methods for tracking how they do that. They've really figured out that stuff…even being one of the first (maybe still only?) that detected iPhones not on data plans and even automatically adding a plan. As a casual user, I'd like to know so I can try and bypass it . I'm wondering if a VPN would do it.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    That's not available to us. However, what you are supposing is that carriers are paying to install fiber, and aren't running gig fiber, which is basically the standard now. That just doesn't make any sense. Gig is the standard these days, even when the air interfaces can saturate far less. Some sites, if they are microwave hub sites in some more rural areas might be getting close to that, although in that case you're looking at far less air interface capacity on any given tower, as you're not looking at Band 4 LTE, and won't be for some time.
    Now, I'm trying not to misread your posts. I'm not supposing that at all. I am suggesting that vzw has a great deal to gain and, really, not all that much to lose by simply not utilizing the full capacity of that gig fiber.

    If I read your posts aright, you are supposing that, in general, it's safe to say that congestion = air interface saturation. I'm just saying, 'not necessarily' to that .



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  7. #187
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    Basically just because ya have unlimited it doesn't mean you are torrenting all the time or stuff like that

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  8. #188
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    folks it is not about back haul or front haul or if there is sufficient data pipe.att learned a valueable lesson on the first unlimmited data offering.att wont do it again on cellular network.there is no law that states att has to offer unlimited data.with unlimmited data there is always that 1% that will use 50+gb.most use less than 3gb.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooter55 View Post
    with unlimmited data there is always that 1% that will use 50+gb.most use less than 3gb.
    Everything you say is pretty incoherent, but basically you're right...those who abuse unlimited and use vast amounts of data are outliers despite the lies AT&T told to try and justify changing. In business, you don't worry about outliers unless it can be demonstrated that they are affecting everyone else. That was never shown to be the case and independent studies I believe have confirmed that with the air interface saturation. Not to mention that AT&T themselves mentioned how the unlimited users had less effect than they thought and allowed us to use Facetime, etc. over cellular now.

    So why don't we have unlimited again?

  10. #190
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    We could have unlimited with network optimization or throttles. That's not what AT&T and Verizon wanted. They wanted to boost EBITDA, profit margins, and dividends. Data monetization was the best path for that. Sponsored data is next. AT&T and Verizon know there's going to be push back to raising rates too much, so they want to charge content providers to obtain profit instead.
    Have you read the forum rules lately?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by fraydog View Post
    We could have unlimited with network optimization or throttles. That's not what AT&T and Verizon wanted. They wanted to boost EBITDA, profit margins, and dividends. Data monetization was the best path for that. Sponsored data is next. AT&T and Verizon know there's going to be push back to raising rates too much, so they want to charge content providers to obtain profit instead.
    Agreed !!

    That is the bottom line and no arguing about it amongst ourselves will change it in any way.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by fraydog View Post
    We could have unlimited with network optimization or throttles. That's not what AT&T and Verizon wanted. They wanted to boost EBITDA, profit margins, and dividends. Data monetization was the best path for that. Sponsored data is next. AT&T and Verizon know there's going to be push back to raising rates too much, so they want to charge content providers to obtain profit instead.
    what is the name you gonna give that wirless company you starting up.show att and verizon how it is done.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcrunner View Post
    Everything you say is pretty incoherent, but basically you're right...those who abuse unlimited and use vast amounts of data are outliers despite the lies AT&T told to try and justify changing. In business, you don't worry about outliers unless it can be demonstrated that they are affecting everyone else. That was never shown to be the case and independent studies I believe have confirmed that with the air interface saturation. Not to mention that AT&T themselves mentioned how the unlimited users had less effect than they thought and allowed us to use Facetime, etc. over cellular now.

    So why don't we have unlimited again?
    ok lol att did learn a very valuable lesson.

    yes att is in it to make the money.evil att lol

  14. #194
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    the current system is the best att has come out with.it is fair to all.you need 100gb or just 10gb of cellular data.you gonna pay for it.the way it should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooter55 View Post
    the current system is the best att has come out with.it is fair to all.you need 100gb or just 10gb of cellular data.you gonna pay for it.the way it should be.
    I'm fine with tiered data, but the price per GB is insane. Watching one Netflix video can easily burn through a huge portion of your monthly data.

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