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Thread: New CRTC Code: 2 year contract limit, Data/roaming caps, Device unlocking

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    G. 2.
    i. When a subsidized device is provided as part of the contract,
    [LIST][*] for fixed-term contracts: The early cancellation fee must not exceed the value of the device subsidy. The early cancellation fee must be reduced by an equal amount each month, for the lesser of 24 months or the total number of months in the contract term, such that the early cancellation fee is reduced to $0 by the end of the period.[*] for indeterminate contracts: The early cancellation fee must not exceed the value of the device subsidy. The early cancellation fee must be reduced by an equal amount each month, over a maximum of 24 months, such that the early cancellation fee is reduced to $0 by the end of the period.
    So would this mean that a Wind tab that now gets paid off after 3 years would instead be automatically paid off after 2 years?


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    wind fanboys believe that they have never signed contracts, thus they are extremely happy to see their tabs being reduced by 4$/month for 35 months.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by migo View Post
    So would this mean that a Wind tab that now gets paid off after 3 years would instead be automatically paid off after 2 years?


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    "When a subsidized device is provided as part of the contract"

    Reading that section again, I'm not so sure that it applies. It refers to contracts, but Wind doesn't have contracts for service. There's an argument that there is a contract for the tab, but the rules seem to be referring to service contracts.
    We might not see any change in the tab program.

    Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using HowardForums
    Rome wasn't built in a day, but if Wind was the builder, it would still be under construction.

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    The bad news, for Wind, is now they can't charge for unlocking. Expect Telus to take full advantage of this, if they are allowed to buy Mobi. Helping customers use Wind to get nice handsets, get unlock, then use with them.

    I also suspect that Wind loses the advantage of people going to them just because they didn't want a three year contract. Two is much more palatable.

    I don't think this hurts Robelus at all. Since they all tend to do the same thing in unison (pricing, plans, feature removal, terms and conditions, etc.) This just imposes unison upon them, even better for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beachlover333 View Post
    The bad news, for Wind, is now they can't charge for unlocking. Expect Telus to take full advantage of this, if they are allowed to buy Mobi. Helping customers use Wind to get nice handsets, get unlock, then use with them.
    Unlocking of phone does not provide that much revenue. A lot of phone can be unlocked via ebay under $10 a pop.

    Quote Originally Posted by beachlover333 View Post
    I also suspect that Wind loses the advantage of people going to them just because they didn't want a three year contract. Two is much more palatable. .
    Since there are a lot more RBT clients than Wind clients, theoretically there are more RBT clients not satisfied then.

    Quote Originally Posted by beachlover333 View Post
    I don't think this hurts Robelus at all. Since they all tend to do the same thing in unison (pricing, plans, feature removal, terms and conditions, etc.) This just imposes unison upon them, even better for them.
    I call that collusion. That has been working swimmingly good for RBT for a long long time. This code and whatever announcement later on this morning should make changes

    Daniel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendenzi View Post
    ... but fair is fair.

    December can't come soon enough. They should have imposed this on the carriers 30-90 days after today.
    If fair were fair, they would've imposed it immediately because, as we all know, terms are subject to change without notification

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    Quote Originally Posted by beachlover333 View Post
    Expect Telus to take full advantage of this, if they are allowed to buy Mobi.
    Industry Canada just denied the sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearbroccoli View Post
    "When a subsidized device is provided as part of the contract"

    Reading that section again, I'm not so sure that it applies. It refers to contracts, but Wind doesn't have contracts for service. There's an argument that there is a contract for the tab, but the rules seem to be referring to service contracts.
    We might not see any change in the tab program.

    Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using HowardForums
    On the actual document, it also mentions device subsidy without fixed term. It states if that's the case, it must reduce to zero by equal amount in 24 months.

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    Important questions raised by these 2 posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearbroccoli View Post
    "When a subsidized device is provided as part of the contract"
    Reading that section again, I'm not so sure that it applies. It refers to contracts, but Wind doesn't have contracts for service. There's an argument that there is a contract for the tab, but the rules seem to be referring to service contracts.
    Any agreement between the wireless provider and the customer (based on an exchange of money for services) would qualify as a contract, and will have to be provided to the customer in writing (in the form of the Critical Information Summary, C.1.). This includes any device subsidy, as specified by the Key contract terms and definitions (G.1.iv) and within the contract ECF definitions of the Code (G.2. as quoted in an earlier post).

    Quote Originally Posted by onemorecanuck View Post
    ... as we all know, terms are subject to change without notification
    Definitions
    Key contract terms and conditions
    The elements of the contract that the service provider cannot change without the customer’s express consent. Key contract terms and conditions are listed in section B. 1. (iv) a-e of the Code.

    B. 1. (iv)
    Key contract terms and conditions
    a. the services included in the contract and any limits on the use of those services that could trigger overage charges or additional fees;
    b. the minimum monthly charge for services included in the contract;
    c. the commitment period, including the end date of the contract;
    d. if applicable
    i. the total early cancellation fee;
    ii. the amount by which the early cancellation fee will decrease each month; and
    iii. the date on which the customer will no longer be subject to the early cancellation fee;
    e. if a subsidized device is provided as part of the contract,
    i. the retail price of the device, which is the lesser of the manufacturer’s suggested retail price or the price set for the device when it is purchased from the service provider without a contract;
    ii. the amount the customer paid for the device; and
    iii. the fee to unlock the device, if any;

    D. 1.
    Changes to key contract terms and conditions
    i. A service provider must not change the key contract terms and conditions of a postpaid wireless contract during the commitment period without the customer’s informed and express consent.
    ii. When a service provider notifies a customer that it intends to change a key contract term or condition during the commitment period, the customer may refuse the change.
    iii. As an exception, a service provider may only change a key contract term or condition during the commitment period without the customer’s express consent if it clearly benefits the customer by either
    iv. reducing the rate for a single service; or
    v. increasing the customer’s usage allowance for a single service.

    --
    Wireless Code (full text)
    Last edited by pjw918; 06-04-2013 at 11:01 AM.
    A Canadian tale of wireless competition, and Another
    From unjust discrimination to undue preference - a CRTC timeline

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    Important questions raised by these 2 posts.



    Any agreement between the wireless provider and the customer (based on an exchange of money for services) would qualify as a contract, and will have to be provided to the customer in writing (in the form of the Critical Information Summary, C.1.). This includes any device subsidy, as specified by the Key contract terms and definitions (G.1.iv) and within the contract ECF definitions of the Code (G.2. as quoted in an earlier post).



    Definitions
    Key contract terms and conditions
    The elements of the contract that the service provider cannot change without the customer’s express consent. Key contract terms and conditions are listed in section B. 1. (iv) a-e of the Code.

    B. 1. (iv)
    Key contract terms and conditions
    a. the services included in the contract and any limits on the use of those services that could trigger overage charges or additional fees;
    b. the minimum monthly charge for services included in the contract;
    c. the commitment period, including the end date of the contract;
    d. if applicable
    i. the total early cancellation fee;
    ii. the amount by which the early cancellation fee will decrease each month; and
    iii. the date on which the customer will no longer be subject to the early cancellation fee;
    e. if a subsidized device is provided as part of the contract,
    i. the retail price of the device, which is the lesser of the manufacturer’s suggested retail price or the price set for the device when it is purchased from the service provider without a contract;
    ii. the amount the customer paid for the device; and
    iii. the fee to unlock the device, if any;

    D. 1.
    Changes to key contract terms and conditions
    i. A service provider must not change the key contract terms and conditions of a postpaid wireless contract during the commitment period without the customer’s informed and express consent.
    ii. When a service provider notifies a customer that it intends to change a key contract term or condition during the commitment period, the customer may refuse the change.
    iii. As an exception, a service provider may only change a key contract term or condition during the commitment period without the customer’s express consent if it clearly benefits the customer by either
    iv. reducing the rate for a single service; or
    v. increasing the customer’s usage allowance for a single service.

    --
    Wireless Code (full text)
    Am I reading section D correctly? Are customers actually protected from rate increases in the middle of their contract, or am I just reading what I want to read?

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearbroccoli View Post
    Am I reading section D correctly? Are customers actually protected from rate increases in the middle of their contract, or am I just reading what I want to read?
    That's how I read it (taken along with B.1.iv.a-b).

    --
    I'm not certain where actual overage charges fit - under optional or pay-per-use services? (B.1. - Other aspects of the contract - m.i., which are not Key). Or is the overage rate considered part of the B.1.iv.a "included service" it is attached to? At this point I'm thinking changes in overage rate may not require "express consent", could be wrong, may need CRTC clarification. I'd be happier if the overage rate attached to an included but limited service (300 min voice, 500 MB data) was explicitly included in B.1.iv.a.
    Last edited by pjw918; 06-04-2013 at 01:41 PM.

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    Emailed CRTC for clarification:

    Is the overage rate associated with an included service (eg. 300 min.voice included addtional @ 0.45/min, 500 MB data inluded additional @ 0.05/MB), considered part of the Key contract terms and conditions? ...
    Or, can the overage rate associated with an included service be changed by the provider during the commitment period.

    Their response:

    Once the Wireless Code is in effect for contracts signed December 2, 2013, each WSP will have to clearly set out the details of the packages chosen by the subscriber. Those terms may not be changed by the WSP without the consent of the subscriber.
    Seems clear overage rates cannot be increased without consent.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun26 View Post
    I see it as helping Wind in two ways: with the ETF-covered part of contracts limited to two years, prices for phones on contract should go up, bringing them closer to Wind selling the phone outright to the customer. And the two year limit means Robelus customers will be available for Wind to poach more often, without paying an ETF to leave Robelus.
    You are forgetting one major point, this code applies to any new Service Contract/Renewal signed on or after December 2, 2013. So the earliest Wind would be able to benefit from this would be December 2, 2015. We don't know what is going to happen to Wind within the next 2 years.

    If it was retroactive, then yes, it would help Wind.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachlover333 View Post
    The bad news, for Wind, is now they can't charge for unlocking.
    How did you arrive at that? The Code doesn't disallow fees for unlocking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    Emailed CRTC for clarification:

    Is the overage rate associated with an included service (eg. 300 min.voice included addtional @ 0.45/min, 500 MB data inluded additional @ 0.05/MB), considered part of the Key contract terms and conditions? ...
    Or, can the overage rate associated with an included service be changed by the provider during the commitment period.

    Their response:



    Seems clear overage rates cannot be increased without consent.
    why would you email crtc for this? Anything that affects what you pay is a key contract term or condition.
    Even currently I've used overage rate changes to get out of contracts.

    besides, the over arching policy states that if there is anything ambiguous about the code it must read in favor of the customer.

    basically they cannot change any terms of the contract unless it is for the benefit of the customer. Unless of course you choose to accept the changes

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