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Thread: Verizon's either cautious or Apple is constricting.

  1. #16
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    Hell of a comparison, revelated; that should be filed in the reference/look-up section.

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    So, I guess this means you'll be buying the iphone 5, lol. Is the 4 up for sale yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelated View Post
    *snip*
    You obviously have a VERY specific set of needs. Needs of which you should already know by doing one minute of research that the iPhone 4 would not meet. Like I said previously, to each their own. Everyone has different needs and not all phones meet those needs. I have extensive Android usage enough to know that in my experience, Android is nowhere near as polished, fast or fluid as iOS nor is the hardware as good. The apps are more polished on iOS than their respective Android counterparts and they work better. As for Google Voice, I personally prefer having the dialer in Google Voice app rather than having it integrate with my primary dialer. I use Google Voice for everything that isn't friends and family so whenever I dial from the dialer on Fascinate I have to choose to make a normal or GV call. On the iPhone when I do want to use GV, I go into the app and use the dialer there. As for the inbox, its more polished on iOS and is more fluid. The interface is superior. When I need to access either the GV dialer, inbox or settings it's all right there on the screen rather than having to hit the menu button and go into menus to get there. Much easier to flip between what I need in the iOS version. As for the phone itself, screw Samsung and their lack of updates. They could give two craps about making sure their end users are up to date. I'll take my iPhone 4 with ZERO lags, hiccups, random wonkiness and other issues associated with Android. Android in general but more so on the Fascinate is just not as fast and fluid as iOS. And yes I'll take the ability to take my phone off the charger at 5am and keep on using it all day and plug it in at 11pm with plenty of battery life left.
    Hi, my name is Joey and Im addicted to cell phones...

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelated View Post
    Here's the difference. I don't WANT to upgrade every year. In fact I went quite a long time with whatever I had before the first Storm. The problem is that until the Fascinate, every phone just failed in some area. The Palm Pre would have been the ultimate device had it not been for the hardware itself.

    In any event, it's more money spent, and the ETF is no cheaper, so what's the value? None.
    True, if you're happy with the phone and keeping it for 2 years, then there's no point in a 1 yr contract. But if you see yourself being easily enticed by the "next great thing" (which I'm definitely guilty of), then a 1 yr contract is a no-brainer especially for those who used to take advantage of the annual upgrades. $70 is cheaper than adding a line (~$144 for a yr) or a $230 ETF.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steveanderson13 View Post
    Hell of a comparison, revelated; that should be filed in the reference/look-up section.
    Agreed. There's nothing on the iPhone that is enticing to me and I'm not impressed just because of the apple logo. Hardware-wise, the Fascinate is top notch and can hold its own again anything currently on the market. Yeah, the froyo upgrade is going a little slow but I'm running the latest leak so that's a moot point for me as it performs flawlessly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveanderson13 View Post
    So, I guess this means you'll be buying the iphone 5, lol. Is the 4 up for sale yet?
    I don't see myself ever buying an iPhone again. The closed off and restrictive ecosystem just doesn't cut it. If by some stroke of miracle they open things up to Amazon MP3, full Google integration, full file system navigation, and simplified (i.e. ONE click as opposed to 5) interface, I'd consider it. But as it stands, no.

    I also don't think I'll be doing the Craigslist deal this early out. $350 ETF + $35 activation + $250 for the phone = $635. That's $14 less than full retail, minus tax. So a person is really only saving about $80 if I sold it that way. Doubtful anyone would buy it from me for that small a savings, but I guess it's always worth investigating. In any event I'd have to have a committed buyer before I went that route, and finding committed buyers is hard, especially since the phone is readily available at Best Buy, Apple and Verizon stores out here. You'd have to be a slapnuts to not be able to find one.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoCal19 View Post
    You obviously have a VERY specific set of needs. Needs of which you should already know by doing one minute of research that the iPhone 4 would not meet.
    On the surface the Palm Pre doesn't meet my needs either. However, I had to USE it to know for certain. When dealing with cell phones - and this I know from having worked for two of the four major carriers in my lifetime - you have to USE the phone. You can't go off of surface specs. You can't guess. It either works or it doesn't, but no amount of research can tell you for sure. It has to "feel right". You can only get that sense after having used the device for a few days to know whether it "feels right".

    I was initially quite skeptical about the Fascinate even though I knew from reviews that it did what I wanted. The guy at Best Buy even discouraged me from buying it over the Droid X. And in truth, after I used it for three days, it was a terrible phone. It wasn't until I rooted and subsequently customized it to be the ultimate Google experience that I saw just how amazing it really was. Problem is, even if you jailbreak the iPhone, it doesn't really get you anything. You can't load apps that aren't there. The interface is the interface; there are no independent coders writing better interfaces and if there were, you couldn't use them anyway. The interface will still be clunky. Smooth navigation doesn't matter if it takes 7 actions to do what the Fascinate does with two.

    In any event, I have one need: The phone needs to work the way I work. I shouldn't have to adjust my lifestyle to fit the phone, it should just do what I need it to do. The iPhone requires significant effort for someone like me who depends on Google, not iTunes. When I dial a call, I shouldn't have to open an app to get it to use my own phone number. Don't you realize how silly that is? If I want to bang out an email but both of my hands are occupied driving or whatever, I should able to just speak the email and have the phone type it out for me. In this day and age it's silly that a phone as presumably advanced as iPhone does not have out-of-the-box talk-to-text and talk-to-email.

    The iPhone is so far behind the times in terms of the underlying technology, it's almost criminal how much they charge for what is essentially a pretty shell and great battery life.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoCal19 View Post
    As for the phone itself, screw Samsung and their lack of updates. They could give two craps about making sure their end users are up to date.
    Sounds like you're yet another bitter ex-Samsung user who didn't understand what you were getting into.

    The Fascinate sucks until you root it. It's also quite worthless if you don't care about Google apps. However, heavy Google users have few other solid choices than the Android OS. Period. It's the main reason the Galaxy Tab, overpriced though it is (and it REALLY is) is selling like mad.

    On the flip side, the iPhone is a piece of crap if you DO care about Google apps, and even if you jail break it, you don't get much, because you can't load what YOU want on it. You have to load what Apple says you can load, and even then, the app does not perform the way it should.

    To each their own. I like an open ecosystem where the phone becomes MINE. Not a walled garden where its direction is carefully guided by Apple's limited vision. And this is coming from the owner of various Mac products that I love dearly...the iOS is way behind the times, and it's going to cost Apple when more people get exposed to webOS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelated View Post
    Here's the difference. I don't WANT to upgrade every year. In fact I went quite a long time with whatever I had before the first Storm. The problem is that until the Fascinate, every phone just failed in some area. The Palm Pre would have been the ultimate device had it not been for the hardware itself.

    In any event, it's more money spent, and the ETF is no cheaper, so what's the value? None.




    The thing is, the cost depends on how deep you are into your current contract. IT all works based on three things: Google Voice (so you don't care about the phone number), the ETF going down over time, and having the same plans/features. Depending on the phone, you might also be able to recoup partial cost or even make partial profit based on the model.

    When I bought the Palm Pre, I was halfway through the contract, and the Storm 2 was still valuable. SO the math went like this.

    • Paid $50 for the Pre. New contract. Decided I liked it a lot.
    • Canceled Storm 2 line. Ended up being like $180 or something for the ETF. So my total expense was $240 plus the Pre's tax, so it came to be about $300.
    • Sold the Storm 2 for $300 on Craigslist. At the time, Verizon was still charging $400 for it, so that guy got a steal and didn't have to extend his contract.


    In that scenario I lost absolutely nothing and gained a phone I really enjoyed. That was the one where Verizon gave me fits about doing it and I had to argue with the guy about the fact I was paying the ETF anyway and it shouldn't matter.


    This last time, I think I'm like 6 months into the 2 year on my Fascinate, so the ETF will be higher, however because Verizon is overpricing the full retail of the iPhone by about $200, I'll still be able to make the swap for pennies on the dollar if I decide I like the iPhone, which based on yesterday's experience, is going to be a stretch, BTW.

    Short answer: it depends. Not many people actually do the math like I do, but if you do, you might find that you can "upgrade" for the same or cheaper as if you were eligible.



    I have no idea what you're talking about, dude.

    ON the Fascinate, the Google Voice app INTEGRATES with the phone, so I never have to open it. I open the phone, I dial a call, it places the call using Google Voice. Voicemails route to Google Voice. Text messages come into the Messaging app. THAT is integration. Apple's version is severely nerfed as evident by the negative reviews on the App Store compared to the Market.

    Additionally, iTunes is a bloated piece of crap - Apple refuses to allow Amazon MP3 and you can't navigate the file share in any case. I do my shopping from Amazon MP3 because it integrates cleanly with Soundhound - so if I hear a great song on the radio, I just SoundHound it, click Buy, it opens Amazon MP3, I can buy it right there. Amazon MP3 is small and slick and focuses solely on the music you want instead of forcing you to load the whole store just to buy a song every now and then.

    The iPhone does not have voice search/voice text/voice email/voice ANYTHING from what I can tell. That alone is a huge disadvantage from someone who uses it quite religiously on the Fascinate. Being able to drive and talk-to-text and talk-to-email without downloading another app is critical, because I'm on-call IT. Now I know some of you soccer moms are ok texting on the road and causing accidents, I'm not.

    iPhone's Safari does not reorient web pages based on zoom from what I can tell. Fascinate's browser does. So if I zoom in, it automatically zooms and reorients the text to fit the window. Never realized how valuable that is until I tried browsing on the iPod Touch. This one I knew about, but I guess I figured maybe Apple improved the browser on the iPhone. Not the case.

    iPhone is heavy. I'd say twice as heavy as the Fascinate. It just feels...wrong. Not as easy to pick up from a table. For someone on the move, this is a negative.

    Not being access menu and settings from within apps on the iPhone is extremely annoying.

    The multitasking swallows on both phones, honestly, compared to the Palm Pre. That's one area where I have had to make concessions. However, because the Fascinate has more than just one function button, I can make do.

    Fascinate, you can enable GPS/Bluetooth/WiFi just by pulling down the blind and pressing the button. iPhone, you have to go to Home/Settings/WiFi for the wireless, Home/Settings/General/Bluetooth for the Bluetooth, and Home/General/Settings/Location Settings to allow location.

    From what I can see, the iPhone does not do turn-by-turn voice navigation, which the Fascinate does out of the box.

    App Store requires a credit card even for a free download unless you futz with iTunes on your computer; Market does not.

    Fascinate supports direct contact sync from Facebook, Google, Twitter, or MySpace without downloading those apps, should people care about such things. iPhone does not.

    Fascinate has removable storage; iPhone does not.

    Fascinate has a user replaceable battery; iPhone does not.

    Fascinate's speaker volume is at least three times that of the iPhone. First phone since the Pearl where I've actually had to turn the speaker volume DOWN.

    Fascinate uses standard microUSB, readily available for pennies on the dollar from monoprice.com or Amazon.com. Apple's proprietary connector is severely overpriced and forces you to manage yet another cable.

    iPhone requires a computer to even use the thing, as well as activate it. You also have to have iTunes installed. Fascinate just works out of the box.



    Shall I go on?

    The iPhone has three advantages, one of which I don't care about, one of which doesn't really matter.

    Games - the iPhone has a better gaming experience than any other phone on the market. Too bad I don't believe in gaming on my phone and even if I did, the touch screen just doesn't work for me. I suspect the so-called "PlayStation Phone" is going to show Apple how it's done.

    Signal Strength - the iPhone shows three bars, the Fascinate shows one bar, in the exact same place. This doesn't matter because (A) signal bars don't truly indicate the quality of the connection, (B) we have already had Apple admit they were showing more bars than the phone is really receiving, and (3) I'm almost always on wifi when I'm here, and hardly use my phone for actual calls since I just use the dialout feature from Gmail over WiFi.

    Battery Life - it's already well expected that the iPhone would have a superior battery life, so this wasn't a surprise. If I could have this battery life on the Fascinate, I'd be a happy camper. However I wouldn't sacrifice the weight or form factor of the Fascinate to get it.
    Dude you don't want the iPhone then, keep you fascinate!
    Just stop the "me and my fascinate are too good" attitude

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelated View Post
    I don't see myself ever buying an iPhone again. The closed off and restrictive ecosystem just doesn't cut it. If by some stroke of miracle they open things up to Amazon MP3, full Google integration, full file system navigation, and simplified (i.e. ONE click as opposed to 5) interface, I'd consider it. But as it stands, no.

    I also don't think I'll be doing the Craigslist deal this early out. $350 ETF + $35 activation + $250 for the phone = $635. That's $14 less than full retail, minus tax. So a person is really only saving about $80 if I sold it that way. Doubtful anyone would buy it from me for that small a savings, but I guess it's always worth investigating. In any event I'd have to have a committed buyer before I went that route, and finding committed buyers is hard, especially since the phone is readily available at Best Buy, Apple and Verizon stores out here. You'd have to be a slapnuts to not be able to find one.




    On the surface the Palm Pre doesn't meet my needs either. However, I had to USE it to know for certain. When dealing with cell phones - and this I know from having worked for two of the four major carriers in my lifetime - you have to USE the phone. You can't go off of surface specs. You can't guess. It either works or it doesn't, but no amount of research can tell you for sure. It has to "feel right". You can only get that sense after having used the device for a few days to know whether it "feels right".

    I was initially quite skeptical about the Fascinate even though I knew from reviews that it did what I wanted. The guy at Best Buy even discouraged me from buying it over the Droid X. And in truth, after I used it for three days, it was a terrible phone. It wasn't until I rooted and subsequently customized it to be the ultimate Google experience that I saw just how amazing it really was. Problem is, even if you jailbreak the iPhone, it doesn't really get you anything. You can't load apps that aren't there. The interface is the interface; there are no independent coders writing better interfaces and if there were, you couldn't use them anyway. The interface will still be clunky. Smooth navigation doesn't matter if it takes 7 actions to do what the Fascinate does with two.

    In any event, I have one need: The phone needs to work the way I work. I shouldn't have to adjust my lifestyle to fit the phone, it should just do what I need it to do. The iPhone requires significant effort for someone like me who depends on Google, not iTunes. When I dial a call, I shouldn't have to open an app to get it to use my own phone number. Don't you realize how silly that is? If I want to bang out an email but both of my hands are occupied driving or whatever, I should able to just speak the email and have the phone type it out for me. In this day and age it's silly that a phone as presumably advanced as iPhone does not have out-of-the-box talk-to-text and talk-to-email.

    The iPhone is so far behind the times in terms of the underlying technology, it's almost criminal how much they charge for what is essentially a pretty shell and great battery life.




    Sounds like you're yet another bitter ex-Samsung user who didn't understand what you were getting into.

    The Fascinate sucks until you root it. It's also quite worthless if you don't care about Google apps. However, heavy Google users have few other solid choices than the Android OS. Period. It's the main reason the Galaxy Tab, overpriced though it is (and it REALLY is) is selling like mad.

    On the flip side, the iPhone is a piece of crap if you DO care about Google apps, and even if you jail break it, you don't get much, because you can't load what YOU want on it. You have to load what Apple says you can load, and even then, the app does not perform the way it should.

    To each their own. I like an open ecosystem where the phone becomes MINE. Not a walled garden where its direction is carefully guided by Apple's limited vision. And this is coming from the owner of various Mac products that I love dearly...the iOS is way behind the times, and it's going to cost Apple when more people get exposed to webOS.
    How is opening the GV app to dial any different than opening the iOS phone app to dial? Either way you're opening a phone app to dial.

    As for the research, I think if you were looking for out of the box voice dialing and text capabilities then 2 minutes of research would have saved you a lot of trouble. Also you knew well ahead of time that Apple's ecosystem is a "walled garden" and if you were that put off by it then again, could have saved yourself the trouble.

    I agree that sometimes Apple is a little too controlling (I'm also a Apple user since the IIe and own many Apple products) but I will take the quality of iOS apps from Apple's stringent ecosystem than the lower quality and not near as polished apps from Android's ecosystem.

    As for being a bitter ex-Samsung user. Yep you're right, I am bitter. However what I expected was a manufacturer to actually stand by their products and put out an update in a reasonable matter of time. I mean hell, it took them how many months just to get a GPS fix out? Take a look around every Android forum, people are jumping off the Sammy bandwagon in droves and many are never looking back. Honestly Samsung can kiss their behind goodbye in the US market because HTC and Moto will dominate Android here.

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    Agree, samsung is poop. That is why I am ditching my att captivate ASAP.

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    verizon refunds equipment costs immediately, and to a credit card it prob takes like 3 days for it to show up on your account.

    how are you paying interest on something that will zero itself out?

    im all for ripping verizon off and pissing them off in anyway possible, but i think you are just being way too picky here with the phone cost. if you paid cash, that can take 2 weeks to get back or more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelated View Post
    I don't see myself ever buying an iPhone again. The closed off and restrictive ecosystem just doesn't cut it. If by some stroke of miracle they open things up to Amazon MP3, full Google integration, full file system navigation, and simplified (i.e. ONE click as opposed to 5) interface, I'd consider it. But as it stands, no..
    that was known from then beginning...apple stuff other than some high end mac computers is overrated. period.

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    Your bill to account thing makes no sense. You don't always have 30 daya to pay for the equipment. What if your billing cycle ends tomorrow and you get the phone today. That bill will be due before 30 daya. If you don't pay it all in full including the equipment you'll be charged a late fee. Not much different from your credit card.

    Sent via the HowardForums Android app

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoCal19 View Post
    Even the Google Voice app on the iPhone works so much better and is so much more polished than the Google Voice app for Android, and the Android version is even made for Google's OS which makes it so much more sad.
    I agreed with everything you said up until this point. The Google Voice app for iOS is nowhere as powerful as the OFFICIAL Google Voice app on Android. The iOS version will randomly lock up, requiring multiple force closes to get it back up and going. It can't intercept call and text messaging attempts and reroute them to Google Voice. Oh yea, did I mention how buggy it is with the random crashes. The only issue I ever had on the Android version was launching the app and requiring to the back button 5-6 times to get back to the main menu.

    - VDubb

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelated View Post
    The iPhone does not have voice search/voice text/voice email/voice ANYTHING from what I can tell. That alone is a huge disadvantage from someone who uses it quite religiously on the Fascinate. Being able to drive and talk-to-text and talk-to-email without downloading another app is critical, because I'm on-call IT. Now I know some of you soccer moms are ok texting on the road and causing accidents, I'm not.

    iPhone's Safari does not reorient web pages based on zoom from what I can tell. Fascinate's browser does. So if I zoom in, it automatically zooms and reorients the text to fit the window. Never realized how valuable that is until I tried browsing on the iPod Touch. This one I knew about, but I guess I figured maybe Apple improved the browser on the iPhone. Not the case.

    iPhone is heavy. I'd say twice as heavy as the Fascinate. It just feels...wrong. Not as easy to pick up from a table. For someone on the move, this is a negative.

    Not being access menu and settings from within apps on the iPhone is extremely annoying.

    The multitasking swallows on both phones, honestly, compared to the Palm Pre. That's one area where I have had to make concessions. However, because the Fascinate has more than just one function button, I can make do.

    Fascinate, you can enable GPS/Bluetooth/WiFi just by pulling down the blind and pressing the button. iPhone, you have to go to Home/Settings/WiFi for the wireless, Home/Settings/General/Bluetooth for the Bluetooth, and Home/General/Settings/Location Settings to allow location.

    From what I can see, the iPhone does not do turn-by-turn voice navigation, which the Fascinate does out of the box.

    App Store requires a credit card even for a free download unless you futz with iTunes on your computer; Market does not.

    Fascinate supports direct contact sync from Facebook, Google, Twitter, or MySpace without downloading those apps, should people care about such things. iPhone does not.

    Fascinate has removable storage; iPhone does not.

    Fascinate has a user replaceable battery; iPhone does not.

    Fascinate's speaker volume is at least three times that of the iPhone. First phone since the Pearl where I've actually had to turn the speaker volume DOWN.

    Fascinate uses standard microUSB, readily available for pennies on the dollar from monoprice.com or Amazon.com. Apple's proprietary connector is severely overpriced and forces you to manage yet another cable.

    iPhone requires a computer to even use the thing, as well as activate it. You also have to have iTunes installed. Fascinate just works out of the box.



    Shall I go on?

    The iPhone has three advantages, one of which I don't care about, one of which doesn't really matter.

    Games - the iPhone has a better gaming experience than any other phone on the market. Too bad I don't believe in gaming on my phone and even if I did, the touch screen just doesn't work for me. I suspect the so-called "PlayStation Phone" is going to show Apple how it's done.

    Signal Strength - the iPhone shows three bars, the Fascinate shows one bar, in the exact same place. This doesn't matter because (A) signal bars don't truly indicate the quality of the connection, (B) we have already had Apple admit they were showing more bars than the phone is really receiving, and (3) I'm almost always on wifi when I'm here, and hardly use my phone for actual calls since I just use the dialout feature from Gmail over WiFi.

    Battery Life - it's already well expected that the iPhone would have a superior battery life, so this wasn't a surprise. If I could have this battery life on the Fascinate, I'd be a happy camper. However I wouldn't sacrifice the weight or form factor of the Fascinate to get it.
    A lot of this is inaccurate. You do not need to set up a credit card to get access to the App Store, whether you set it up through the phone or iTunes. If going to through the phone, it does make it a bit confusing because it makes it look like a credit card is mandatory.

    I also found it funny how you said you don't want to download an app to add functionality (which is a bit odd why taking 10 seconds to just add needed functionality is such a big deal for you), but then you claimed the Fascinate has turn-by-turn voice navigation out of the box in which it doesn't...well, unless you count paying $10/m for VZ Nav. The only other map program that is installed is Bing Maps which has no voice navigation and guess what, you need to download Google Maps for the free voice navigation; however, from your bold text, I thought having to download an app was unacceptable.

    Also, mobile Safari does reorient web pages when zoomed in. I don't know why it isn't working for you.

    - VDubb

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    does iphone really not have voice recognition for text input?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
    does iphone really not have voice recognition for text input?
    No, it does not. Unless you download Dragon Dictation or some other app. Fascinate requires no app to do text input by voice.

    Quote Originally Posted by VDubb View Post
    A lot of this is inaccurate. You do not need to set up a credit card to get access to the App Store, whether you set it up through the phone or iTunes. If going to through the phone, it does make it a bit confusing because it makes it look like a credit card is mandatory.
    What?

    If you try to buy an app, it will ask for your Apple ID. If you plug it in and there is not a credit card, it will ask you to "verify" the payment details. You can't get past that on the phone (i.e. buy the app) until you give it a credit card number. The only way to stop this behavior is to use a computer, go into iTunes and set up the account a specific way as a workaround. The point though is that for FREE apps, a credit card should never be required, regardless of whether I go from the phone or from the computer. It should be smart enough to know that "if pymt < .01 then ccreq = 0" and skip that question. It does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by VDubb View Post
    I also found it funny how you said you don't want to download an app to add functionality (which is a bit odd why taking 10 seconds to just add needed functionality is such a big deal for you), but then you claimed the Fascinate has turn-by-turn voice navigation out of the box in which it doesn't...well, unless you count paying $10/m for VZ Nav. The only other map program that is installed is Bing Maps which has no voice navigation and guess what, you need to download Google Maps for the free voice navigation; however, from your bold text, I thought having to download an app was unacceptable.
    What are you talking about? The Fascinate has turn-by-turn voice nav out of the box because I don't have to install anything to get it. VZNav will do exactly that for a little extra. If I don't want to pay the money then I have to download a free app. My point is that iPhone doesn't have it AT ALL unless you download Google Maps or Telenav or some other app. Fascinate - out of the box, pay for VZNav, it just works. iPhone, forced to download an app to get it to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by VDubb View Post
    Also, mobile Safari does reorient web pages when zoomed in. I don't know why it isn't working for you.
    It does not. It zooms in. When I say reorient I mean if I am reading in portrait mode a page that is not formatted for mobile phones - i.e. standard HTML web page - the Fascinate will move and resize the text so that it automatically fits into the visible area as if it were a mobile page. You are talking about pages that are written specifically for mobile phones. I'm talking about ANY page. The iPhone fails miserably if the page was not written for mobile devices or does not have a mobile format behind it. The Fascinate just works.

    - VDubb[/QUOTE]

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