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Thread: Deutsche Telekom to leave UK Market

  1. #46
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    That's out-of-the-box thinking--I'll have to chew on that. And I doubt your kindergarden teacher had much love.

    As pinot said, I'm not sure that's practical at the moment--although an interesting efficiency play in an artificial market.

    The problem I see is that the current model is around 1 million customers per call center to maintain service levels. And, as I recall, corporate store break even is such that you build a store over a tower if given the choice. Without building a model and playing with the numbers I have no idea what any of that means at this time in the morning.

    Also, while I am admittedly a customer service before all else cynic (especially call center based), in all respects this a risky proposition and would require significant testing, methinks.

    Who knows, though; love to hear some other thoughts. These are some of the best threads I've seen in a while in this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by FL1134
    It's not about coverage as it is about spectrum. ATT/VZW have it, Tmobile doesn't. Any purchase that isn't SPCS, makes sense.

    Tmobile can lead in the future if they ditch the corporate stores and just become a service provider. Employees can be moved to new/larger call centers for support. Phones are sold at retail stores and customers activate themselves--like buying a modem. ATT seems to be embracing (i)phones more and VZW can't stop offering such services.
    Last edited by chenelson; 05-03-2009 at 04:25 AM.

  2. #47
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    What Sprint needs is some investment money. They does not need to merge with anybody. They just needs to finish rebanding and finish putting EVDO on all of their sites. They probably need to aquire iPCS. If they were to merge with anybody they should merge with USCC and Cellular South and aquire some of the divested Alltel/Verizon assets. Move IDEN DC to 900MHz SMR spectrum and start installing LTE on the 800MHz and the PCS band G spectrum in couple of years (2012+). Have hybrid LTE/DC and LTE/CDMA handsets for a while. They do not need any dramatic shifts. Just stay the course and execute.

    T-Mobile needs to absorb both MetroPCS & Cricket and become an unlimited provider and low cost leader. MetroPCS & Cricket and Boost are really pressuring T-Mobile on the low end and The big 3 are pressuring them on the high end. My personal opinion is that T-Mobile cannot continue as a full service post-paid provider for much longer.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinot
    Myth. On average not true. Practically, needs to be based on specific location and travel pattern.
    It always depends on a specific location and travel pattern. So you cannot say that the statement is not true. All providers do not have base stations at the same location often.

    I've found very few locations where I don't have a usable signal. That's places that I go. I could care less about places I do not go or rarely go. If you want rural coverage you'll know that you more likely will have better coverage with a cellular (850) provider such as AT&T or Verizon. If you're in an urban area pretty much anyone should work.
    Moderator yahoogroups forum T-Mobile-US http://groups.yahoo.com/group/T-Mobile-US

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinot
    But where would customers go for face to face support and sales? That move, as much as I like the sound of parts of it, would kill a significant share of business. Not practical.
    Did you need "face to face" support for signing up for internet?

    Buy computer at retail/internet store, sign up for internet service.
    Buy phone at retail/internet store, sign up for wireless internet service.

    I don't know why there is a disconnect; carriers are even beginning to sell netbooks. Why would you buy a computer from a wireless company (besides the subsidy)? Carriers can't continue to pay commission in a mature, saturated market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49
    T-Mobile needs to absorb both MetroPCS & Cricket and become an unlimited provider and low cost leader. MetroPCS & Cricket and Boost are really pressuring T-Mobile on the low end and The big 3 are pressuring them on the high end. My personal opinion is that T-Mobile cannot continue as a full service post-paid provider for much longer.
    Don't know about MetroPCS & Cricket but I definitely see the play on low cost. With rebranding and focus on at&t and VZW, T-Mobile found themselves out of position and is unable to compete effectively as they're squeezed between data hungry behemoths and regional flat-rate players.

    Apple also took the wind out of their sails and completely shook them to the core; left them scared, acting irrationally and fouling their Retail Strategy. Without their legacy Get More brand and what was left of John Stanton's game, they'd likely have been negative net in Q1 and possibly even earlier.

    With Sue Nokes gone, hopefully they can move away from their 1 million customers per call center model and cut expense. With a flat-rate focus, they can go KISS, eliminate billing issues and therefore eliminate much of the scaling challenge of expensive reactive customer experience focus.

    I'd really like to see them make a play for Rod Dir, CPA and former COO of Powertel that worked their merger with DT; VP of Retail that built out corporate retail (from 300 to 1200 doors); former COO of Cincinnati Bell; current COO of Firethorn Mobile (Qualcomm) working on leading edge mobile commerce applications. He drove T-Mobile's Distribution Strategy that fed into the Retail Strategy before a headhunter picked him up during utter boredom. He truly gets it--and I've never worked for someone that employed the Socratic Method so effectively. His vision and combination of hard- and soft-skill would inspire confidence in T-Mobile's ability to compete while rebuilding their shaky foundation.
    Last edited by chenelson; 05-03-2009 at 04:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chenelson
    That's out-of-the-box thinking--I'll have to chew on that. And I doubt your kindergarden teacher had much love.

    As pinot said, I'm not sure that's practical at the moment--although an interesting efficiency play in an artificial market.

    The problem I see is that the current model is around 1 million customers per call center to maintain service levels. And, as I recall, corporate store break even is such that you build a store over a tower if given the choice. Without building a model and playing with the numbers I have no idea what any of that means at this time in the morning.

    Also, while I am admittedly a customer service before all else cynic (especially call center based), in all respects this a risky proposition and would require significant testing, methinks.

    Who knows, though; love to hear some other thoughts. These are some of the best threads I've seen in a while in this forum.
    At the moment, to fire all tmobile sales reps and close all corporate stores would only create more problems. Handsets are moving towards one air interface (LTE) and moving towards internet appliances/netbooks/unified software. It just doesn't make business sense to have corporate stores paying commission when all they are doing is selling gloried tiny computers. Other stores are better suited for such services especially when little to no provisioning is needed today.

    The market is saturated and mature; people know what they want and how to get it. Unify the software (android/linux) and simply the data billing and you don't need that costly retail presence. That capital can be used for more important things like improving the network vs worrying about securing the next big exclusive phone.

    Employees:
    36,000 tmobile
    66,000 vzw
    40,000+ att

    Those employees are costly.

  7. #52
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    Great points and food for thought.

    A large obstacle I see is the 30 minute activation requirement which is mostly talk and not IT intensive. Even though it shouldn't be so darn complicated for consumers, the telecoms (inlcuding cable/satellite) do their best to confuse the heck out of the mainstream. That said, with a flat-rate type approach and a focus on 5-minute activation, in theory, it might even be possible to replace many distribution doors with thousands of self-serve acquisition and payment/service capable kiosks. Not sure how that would play across cross-country cultural; minority, and baby boomer segments.

    There are so many challenges facing DT and T-Mobile right now... I don't know how practical any of this talk is. It is hard to be confident with a company that attempted to become something that was so far removed from their core competency.
    Quote Originally Posted by FL1134
    At the moment, to fire all tmobile sales reps and close all corporate stores would only create more problems. Handsets are moving towards one air interface (LTE) and moving towards internet appliances/netbooks/unified software. It just doesn't make business sense to have corporate stores paying commission when all they are doing is selling gloried tiny computers. Other stores are better suited for such services especially when little to no provisioning is needed today.

    The market is saturated and mature; people know what they want and how to get it. Unify the software (android/linux) and simply the data billing and you don't need that costly retail presence. That capital can be used for more important things like improving the network vs worrying about securing the next big exclusive phone.

    Employees:
    36,000 tmobile
    66,000 vzw
    40,000+ att

    Those employees are costly.

  8. #53
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    Relevant discussion on the history of internal struggle at T-Mobile: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?p=12539599

  9. #54
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    Wirelessly posted (Nokia6263/2.0 (05.20) Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

    Although t-mobile's numbers have not been great for the past 3 quarters, aren't they still turning a profit? Some of you are acting like they are on the verge of bankruptcy.
    Last edited by Dark Past; 05-03-2009 at 05:39 PM.
    I need the Samsung Epic NOW!!!!!

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Past
    Although t-mobile's numbers have not been great for the past 3 quarters, aren't they still turning a profit? Some of you are acting like they are on the verge of bankruptcy.
    1. T-Mobile USA is trending toward zero growth
    2. Prepaid saving them from near or even negative net
    3. Churn is extremely high compared to at&t and VZW (behemoths would be negative growth if same churn rate)
    4. Their COO just "resigned"
    5. They're in middle of what many consider a failed rebranding and company transformation initiative
    6. Forced employee turnover has been through the roof for several years
    7. Company morale, especially in Sales, is in the gutter
    8. Some in Bellevue hoping for packages in next layoff round instead of sticking around
    9. They have call center leadership without sales or marketing experience relying on HR backgrounds in Executive Leadership roles
    10. DT is getting hit hard financially and under intense competitive and financial pressure on multiple fronts
    11. DT on their 3rd CEO in almost as many years.

    Wouldn't count them out and they may not be on the verge of bankruptcy, but Blackstone can't be happy.

    What are you seeing?
    Last edited by chenelson; 05-03-2009 at 07:00 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chenelson
    1. T-Mobile USA is trending toward zero growth
    2. Prepaid saving them from near or even negative net
    3. Churn is extremely high compared to at&t and VZW (behemoths would be negative growth if same churn rate)
    4. Their COO just "resigned"
    5. They're in middle of what many consider a failed rebranding and company transformation initiative
    6. Forced employee turnover has been through the roof for several years
    7. Company morale, especially in Sales, is in the gutter
    8. Some in Bellevue hoping for packages in next layoff round instead of sticking around
    9. They have call center leadership without sales or marketing experience relying on HR backgrounds in Executive Leadership roles
    10. DT is getting hit hard financially and under intense competitive and financial pressure on multiple fronts
    11. DT on their 3rd CEO in almost as many years.

    Wouldn't count them out and they may not be on the verge of bankruptcy, but Blackstone can't be happy.

    What are you seeing?

    I agree with 80% of what you said but I want to see if MetroPCS/Cricket/Boost hurts T-Mobile as much as many think they are. At&t and Verizon keep growing despite the economy and despite having higher prices...how the hell do they do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Past
    I agree with 80% of what you said but I want to see if MetroPCS/Cricket/Boost hurts T-Mobile as much as many think they are. At&t and Verizon keep growing despite the economy and despite having higher prices...how the hell do they do it?
    AT&T and VZW have the perception of having a better/bigger network.

    Maybe VZW network is better, but AT&T’s network in So Cal is truly garbage, “circuits busy” static, and no coverage is the problem with them. T-Mobile has better coverage, and call quality than ATT here, but they do little to promote the difference.

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    Is there anymore news on this?

    Is it official that they are leaving the UK?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnnihilator
    Is there anymore news on this?

    Is it official that they are leaving the UK?
    Hi

    No its not official.

    There has been nothing new on this for a few days. I think the last report was one on the 7th May in the FT stating D. Telecom would rather not sell T-Mobile UK and will make another attempt to keep the operator as an independent company. Then on the 13th D. Telecom brought in a new MD for T-Mobile UK.

    There have been lots of rumors about T-Mobile UK and who would buy it.

    1) On 6th May Mobiletoday reported that BT were thinking about bidding £3.5b for the operator. BT have been reported a few times over the past 6 months as wanting to get back into the UK mobile market. (BT at one point owned O2)

    2) Then there has been the rumors the Orange UK & T-Mobile UK would like to merge. (This would be difficult due to EU laws as the new company would own most of UK market)

    3) 3 & T-Mobile have been reported that they could merge. There would be no issue with regards to the EU due to 3 being the smallest of the UK 5 main operators. 3 are also yet to make a profit after 8 years of operation. 3 Australia is due to merge with Vodafone Australia so there is a good chance that the 3 brand could go from the UK and Hutch would be happy with a share in T-Mbl uk.

    4) Its also been reported that BT wants both T-Mobile UK and 3 UK.

    In other words who knows. The new MD and D. Telecom saying they want to stay could just be a smoke screen to keep the press away and make sure that new sales are not damaged. In my view something is going to happen but I would guess that we might end up with T-Mobile UK and 3 merging under the T-Mobile brand and there being 3 share holders in the new company. D. Telecom, BT and Hutch.

    Alex

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluecoat
    Tmobile recently gave up the uk market to obviously focus on us market.
    .
    Hi

    T-Mobile have not yet given up on the UK market. Currently the official line is that they want to try and keep T-Mobile UK rather than sell or merge, and appointed a new MD.

    Alex

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