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Thread: AT&T 3G Rollout - Latest markets launching II

  1. #136
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    AT&T would not be required to divest Edge Wireless spectrum, as we had very little. Even if they aquired 850 and already had it they may not be required to do so, such as Verizon was allowed to keep both 850 licenses in south/eastern Idaho with the Alltel buy. The biggest issue for rural markets is the closing of Corp retail stores. Without a direct voice most of these markets will be off the radar for new sites and network upgrades. This is clear with the buy outs of Edge, Suncom, and other regional players. Even T-Mobile is converting most of their non-"super major" market stores to dealers. They have sold most of their retail operations in cities less than 200k to dealers. (Boise ID being the largest so far). Sprint started the trend several years ago with the purchase of their affiliates. The biggest loser in all of this will be rural markets, who will be at the bottom of the list for getting any new coverage sites. Those markets who have the customer base, and a direct voice to corporate will see the greatest growth in the near future.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3G Guy
    The biggest issue for rural markets is the closing of Corp retail stores. Without a direct voice most of these markets will be off the radar for new sites and network upgrades. This is clear with the buy outs of Edge, Suncom, and other regional players.
    I beg to differ on this considering that T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, and Fairpoint have been making strides to expand their services in Vermont (the second smallest state in terms of population). T-Mobile is expanding their 2G network and has equipment that can support 3G. Verizon is expanding their EVDO coverage and deploying LTE. AT&T will eventually convert all of their sites to 3G and kept the corp stores intact. Fairpoint is deploying WiMax for their rural service areas.

    AT&T succeeded where RCC Unicel failed. That is, make the upgrade from EDGE to HSPA+ and deployed the latest devices. RCC Unicel, the very same company that touted the benefits of UMTS in their site planning documents. Not perfect by any means, but it has done a lot more than what its predecessor could ever do.

  3. #138
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    4G in 1900 only markets

    To clarify my concerns about 1900 only markets with AT&T They currently don't have the spectrum to launch 4G in 1900 only markets. Having worked with engineers who cursed 1900 all day, I understand the limitations. The task of bringing a network up to handle the iPhone with limited spectrum was huge. Any carrier expecting to handle the huge data consumed by the iPhone is a challenge. This is further complicated when you are in a mountainous area. These areas are often scenic and have siting issues due to local objections, and govt land. If you look closely at these areas, coverage has shrunk with analog being deleted. This is not something unique to AT&T. All carriers are struggling to find a balance with internal, roaming, Internet, and retail revenues. The fact that the iPhone could only be made availabe through direct , or major retail channels just complicated this. If Apple releases the iPhone to all channels, and other phone makers don't rely on a similar model, we may see everything change. Rural markets need a more open voice to be heard. Right now they are off the map unless more spectrum, or corporate minds open up. 4G could be less or more depending on this

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3G Guy
    To clarify my concerns about 1900 only markets with AT&T They currently don't have the spectrum to launch 4G in 1900 only markets.
    Won't matter anyways since AT&T did purchase blocks of the AWS band specifically for LTE. AT&T doesn't need to cut GSM/UMTS on 1900 when they can just use AWS, while the same RF propagation concerns apply with AWS in rural areas the "don't have" spectrum excuse doesn't apply here.

    http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/a...hp?a=99&p=1495

    This is further complicated when you are in a mountainous area. These areas are often scenic and have siting issues due to local objections, and govt land. If you look closely at these areas, coverage has shrunk with analog being deleted. This is not something unique to AT&T. All carriers are struggling to find a balance with internal, roaming, Internet, and retail revenues.
    I am aware of this already. A quick run through permit database suggests that a lot of effort is required to convince the authorities of the need for a cell site. Secondly, the coverage lost when AMPS was turned off can be replaced with satellite coverage, yet AT&T already has inked a deal with Terrestar for such coverage.

    I'm also aware that terrain can affect RF propagation.

    With the examples, I provided I'm quite sure that Corporations are able to provide the desired services in rural areas. Not perfect mind you, however they can provide such services if they're willing to invest. The spectrum excuse doesn't really apply since they can have tons of spectrum and just sit on it.

  5. #140
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    Agreed. The flexibility of smaller carriers is great

    [QUOTE=i0wnj00]I beg to differ on this considering that T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, and Fairpoint have been making strides to expand their services in Vermont (the second smallest state in terms of population). T-Mobile is expanding their 2G network and has equipment that can support 3G. Verizon is expanding their EVDO coverage and deploying LTE. AT&T will eventually convert all of their sites to 3G and kept the corp stores intact. Fairpoint is deploying WiMax for their rural service areas.

    AT&T succeeded where RCC Unicel failed. That is, make the upgrade from EDGE to HSPA+ and deployed the latest devices. RCC Unicel, the very same company that touted the benefits of UMTS in their site planning documents. Not perfect by any means, but it has done a lot more than what its predecessor could ever do.[/QUOTE

    I agree. Most of these markets are in a profitable corridor. When it comes to making changes to an area with a high commuter population this makes sense. Most areas in the NE Corridor have existing sites, high commuter volume, and little high mountains or govt land. But in most cases actual NEW coverage doesn't exist. I would suggest you wait and see if your Corporate stores stay. The easiest way is to see if they currently carry the iPhone, as dealers can mask their identity. AT&T will typically look for about a year of sales to convert them. If an aquired company AT&T will easily convert it to 3G, depending on the backhaul, and switching/site equipment vendor. Your true test is what happens about 2yrs out. If they feel the retail stores are performing to the same standards as their metro stores then they will stay. If you can't meet the new adds and accessory quotas then they will close them. That is the point where you move off their radar for new sites and upgrades. To give them credit, they give every area an opportunity to keep up with their metropolitan areas.

  6. #141
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    My market has 700 mhz spectrum and AWS for 4G even though it's 1900 only for 3G. Then again, Southern Illinois is kind of a weird case.
    Have you read the forum rules lately?

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by i0wnj00
    Won't matter anyways since AT&T did purchase blocks of the AWS band specifically for LTE. AT&T doesn't need to cut GSM/UMTS on 1900 when they can just use AWS, while the same RF propagation concerns apply with AWS in rural areas the "don't have" spectrum excuse doesn't apply here.

    http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/a...hp?a=99&p=1495



    I am aware of this already. A quick run through permit database suggests that a lot of effort is required to convince the authorities of the need for a cell site. Secondly, the coverage lost when AMPS was turned off can be replaced with satellite coverage, yet AT&T already has inked a deal with Terrestar for such coverage.

    I'm also aware that terrain can affect RF propagation.

    With the examples, I provided I'm quite sure that Corporations are able to provide the desired services in rural areas. Not perfect mind you, however they can provide such services if they're willing to invest. The spectrum excuse doesn't really apply since they can have tons of spectrum and just sit on it.
    I happen to live in an area where AT&T doesn't have any spectrum beyond 1900. Per a recent engineering meeting they will rely on another provider for 4G. The maps you are looking at don't show individual counties. This comes from an engineering meeting last month

  8. #143
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    I also challenge you to find a phone for sale in any AT&T store that allows roaming on Terrestar. Basically if you have a Terrestar phone you can roam on AT&T, not vice versa. AT&T and other carriers may have the ability to cover rural areas, but it's their willingness to do so. I was recently at Old Faithful, in Yellowstone. I didn't have AT&T service, only roaming on standard GSM. AT&T owns the license to cover this area according to the FCC (Teton County, WY), that gets 2M visitors per year. Yet I had to roam on a different carrier without even 2G data. Even if I had a satellite phone, I could not use the features AT&T sold me. I would have enjoyed the comfort of having just voice communication as I hiked through the park, but that is not something any att store had to offer. If you have a different solution through any companys corporate store I would love to have it!

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3G Guy
    I agree. Most of these markets are in a profitable corridor. When it comes to making changes to an area with a high commuter population this makes sense. Most areas in the NE Corridor have existing sites, high commuter volume, and little high mountains or govt land. But in most cases actual NEW coverage doesn't exist.
    That would be the BosWash Corridor.
    This does not describe VT, or 99% of NH, and ME in any shape or form.

    I would suggest you wait and see if your Corporate stores stay. The easiest way is to see if they currently carry the iPhone, as dealers can mask their identity. AT&T will typically look for about a year of sales to convert them.
    That depends on the Corporate stores you're referring to. Depending where I am the AT&T Corp stores have either been carrying the iPhone 3GS for a year now or a few years and probably carry the 3G iPad for a few weeks. I think former Unicel stores were converted over the weekend.

    Your true test is what happens about 2yrs out. If they feel the retail stores are performing to the same standards as their metro stores then they will stay. If you can't meet the new adds and accessory quotas then they will close them. That is the point where you move off their radar for new sites and upgrades. To give them credit, they give every area an opportunity to keep up with their metropolitan areas.
    Then that's an unrealistic way to create a baseline if that's the case since rural and urban markets are different in terms of demographics. AT&T probably should create different metrics based on market type.

    I also challenge you to find a phone for sale in any AT&T store that allows roaming on Terrestar.
    I'm not sure why you want to challenge me on something that exists on paper considering that I only mentioned that they only inked a deal for coverage. I'm not sure what this fools errand is about, unless you have another agenda in mind.

    Basically if you have a Terrestar phone you can roam on AT&T, not vice versa.
    http://www.terrestar.com/devices.php

    "Designed for continuity of operations during man-made or natural disasters, users can enjoy the power of integrated voice, data and multimedia applications enabled by next generation satellite and cellular networks.

    Thanks to true mobile convergence, users have the option to switch between cellular and satellite modes depending on location and available coverage - offering the flexibility to choose how they stay connected, wherever they are."

    Looks like the horses mouth is saying that you can use both both cellular and satellite networks depending on where you are.

    AT&T and other carriers may have the ability to cover rural areas, but it's their willingness to do so. I was recently at Old Faithful, in Yellowstone. I didn't have AT&T service, only roaming on standard GSM. Yet I had to roam on a different carrier without even 2G data.
    Probably Union Cellular/Telephone. I used to roam on them a lot for voice and data. Last time it was GPRS, don't know if they went to EDGE.

    Even if I had a satellite phone, I could not use the features AT&T sold me. I would have enjoyed the comfort of having just voice communication as I hiked through the park, but that is not something any att store had to offer. If you have a different solution through any companys corporate store I would love to have it!
    Like all things in life you have to give or take.
    The only different solution I need is a different carrier like T-Mobile, Verizon and Sprint. I have no use for satellite or hybrid cellular/satellite solutions in urbanized Southern California.

  10. #145
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    Just got 3G in Port Huron, MI!

  11. #146
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    Awesome... I was wondering what was taking it so long to make it up to the border.
    It was as if it missed Port Huron by about 20 miles south and west but covered the farmland / rural areas.
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by thxdude View Post
    @mchinand: Havent heard of anything for Door County. By my maps, that's all partner coverage only in that area so I'm guessing you're stuck unless Att puts their own towers in. Going by att's press release of 180+ towers upgraded this year in WI however, there should be coverage of almost all native areas with 3G. I know Janesville is tripped on and FdL is next. I would expect that in addition to Eau Claire, given that the markets are doing around 25 towers, that another 3-4 markets will be live before years end. My guess: Eau Claire, Sheboygan, La Crosse, Wausau, Wisconsin Rapids, Stevens Point. (the only one I can say for sure though is Eau Claire - the others are just guesses based on the information that I've gathered).

    Any estimate of when Eau Claire, WI should turn on? I've heard anything from summer-winter. I'm dying up here!

  13. #148
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    I'm wondering when ATT will add some 3G in WI Dells/Lake Delton area. You would think since this area is one of the most popular vacation destinations in the Mid-West, that ATT would want to show off their 3G network!

  14. #149
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    3G in Janesville area is nice and along the 39/90 interstate up to Madison. I live in Edgerton and 3G is lousy in town. We're like 2 miles off the frickin interstate and the tower has always sucked for 2g and now 3g signal strength. I downloaded the Iphone app for Mark the Spot and have send tons of areas in town that blow for coverage.

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    3g lit up in Brunswick Georgia finally wifes I-phone download speed from delreports.com was 1390.

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