• How Taiwan isn't (and is) China



    Shortly after Christmas I'll be taking my annual winter break, this year touring the western coast of Taiwan. A couple of people that I know have expressed concern that I'll be snatched up like the other three Canadians caught up in this unfortunate Huawei mess. I feel like there's a teachable moment here, so let me gather my notes as I step up to the rostrum.

    [clears throat] Taiwan is not China. But it also is.

    The island has seen a steady influx of Han Chinese since the 1600s. But the most notable migration came in 1949 as the Kuomintang (KMT), defeated in the civil war by the Communist Party of China (CPC), fled mainland China and set up a government-in-exile in Taiwan.

    Where the confusion stems from is an agreement signed by The Republic of China (Taiwan ROC) and the People's Republic of China (China PRC). Here's Wikipedia on the 1992 Consensus, or One-China Principle:

    Under this "consensus", both governments "agree" that there is only one single sovereign state encompassing both mainland China and Taiwan, but disagree about which of the two governments is the legitimate government of this state.
    The confusion is compounded by Taiwan ROC not having a seat in the United Nations (the PRC does), and by the likes of Air Canada and Marriott Hotels bowing to mainland pressure and listing Taiwanese destinations as part of the PRC. But make no mistake; Taiwan ROC is a sovereign democratic nation, with its own currency, immigration and military forces.

    It's also home to Acer, ASUS, HTC and bubble tea.

    I should be home and back on regular duties as of Thursday, January 17th. Have a safe and happy holiday, and I'll see you in 2019!

    Source: Wikipedia (1) (2)

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    This article was originally published in forum thread: How Taiwan isn't (and is) China started by acurrie View original post
    Comments 32 Comments
    1. chompx2's Avatar
      chompx2 -
      Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
      The USA is a nation, as numerous others... as this matter really has nothing to do with ethnicity. In fact, it isn't that common that a nation perfectly lines up with an ethnic group. Pretty hard to find, in fact.
      Taiwan is not a Nation. There is no such thing as Taiwan ethnicity.
      These are two sentences. See the Full Stop?

      Taiwan is not a Nation. That is obviously debatable as we do not agree.

      There is no such thing as Taiwan ethnicity.
      This is a correct statement.

      You are correct that US is a Nation and have nothing to do with ethnicity.

      BTW there is an Indian Nation in America. This is the indigenous people that were here when Columbus landed in American and mistakenly think he landed in India.
    1. smsgator's Avatar
      smsgator -
      Having visited both places numerous times in the past 31 years, China had become much more like Taiwan, highly capitalistic. Taiwan still has a big advantage in terms of food, and of course in boba.

      Sent from my LGMP450 using HoFo mobile app
    1. i0wnj00's Avatar
      i0wnj00 -
      Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
      That example clearly shows the sovereign nation of Taiwan conducting its own affairs in this important matter, and they are using the designation "ROC", which is in fact, its right to do so.
      Trying to assume it's role as a sovereign nation...
      Since most nation-states only recognize PRC/Beijing as the only legitimate successor to the Republic of China (post 1949).
      Only 16 or so countries recognize ROC/Taipei and these are mainly small and not so politically influential countries.
    1. i0wnj00's Avatar
      i0wnj00 -
      Quote Originally Posted by chompx2 View Post
      Oh, I read some Taiwanese consider themselves as Japanese as they were rule by Japan previously. Some even have Japanese names given to them by the ruling Japanese long time ago. The father of the current President was working for the Japanese, servicing military airplane during WW2.
      Not going to fly in Japan...
      Even the Issei who left the Home Islands aren't considered Japanese....
      I doubt the father did this willingly...
    1. chompx2's Avatar
      chompx2 -
      Quote Originally Posted by smsgator View Post
      Having visited both places numerous times in the past 31 years, China had become much more like Taiwan, highly capitalistic. Taiwan still has a big advantage in terms of food, and of course in boba.

      Sent from my LGMP450 using HoFo mobile app
      My first visit to China was in 1987 on a temporary company assignment. In those days, I was briefed and debriefed by the company security before and after the trip. I have since visited China often. In the last 15 years, I visited yearly. China has major changes since the first time I visited. Taiwan is also one of my favorite places to visit. I do have to agree with you on the Taiwanese food. I especially like to stroll at the night markets. I love the dumplings at Din Tai Fung in Taipei. Although there are Dim Tai Fung in Los Angeles and in Hong Kong, the one in Taipei still is the best. The food prices in Taiwan is very reasonable too.
    1. smsgator's Avatar
      smsgator -
      Quote Originally Posted by chompx2 View Post
      My first visit to China was in 1987 on a temporary company assignment. In those days, I was briefed and debriefed by the company security before and after the trip. I have since visited China often. In the last 15 years, I visited yearly. China has major changes since the first time I visited. Taiwan is also one of my favorite places to visit. I do have to agree with you on the Taiwanese food. I especially like to stroll at the night markets. I love the dumplings at Din Tai Fung in Taipei. Although there are Dim Tai Fung in Los Angeles and in Hong Kong, the one in Taipei still is the best. The food prices in Taiwan is very reasonable too.
      I've been to Din Tai Fung in Taipei and in Shanghai. There's one in San Jose now, but I haven't been there as I try to stay away from the mall that it is located in. I can walk to a place with 小笼包 xiao long bao almost as good as Din Tai Fung, called XLB (xiao long bao) Kitchen.

      Yes, the night markets in Taipei are awesome.

      I also first visited China in 1987, on a vacation (a cycling tour). It has changed so much since then. I am really glad that I went there before it became so westernized. I went there a lot for work as well, as a semiconductor applications engineer, after that (including one trip where I went for only 1 day!) to visit companies that we sold parts to (including a lot of trips to Lenovo, which used to be called Legend.

      I last went there in September 2018, visiting one of my city's "friendship cities," west of Shanghai, since I serve on our City Council (and now serve as mayor). Gave a speech to 500 people, visited an electric car factory, a fiberglass factory, one other factory, and an "Internet Hospital."
    1. chompx2's Avatar
      chompx2 -
      Quote Originally Posted by smsgator View Post
      I've been to Din Tai Fung in Taipei and in Shanghai. There's one in San Jose now, but I haven't been there as I try to stay away from the mall that it is located in. I can walk to a place with 小笼包 xiao long bao almost as good as Din Tai Fung, called XLB (xiao long bao) Kitchen......."
      There are a few Din Tai Fung within striking distance from me. However, the first one here in So Cal is the best. That is the one in Arcadia. Stay away from the ones that are opened in the Malls. These cater to the Western folks. When the waiters and waitresses are non-Chinese and the menu is in English, stay away. I went to Din Tai Fung in Glendale and it was not that good.

      I was in Shanghai twice for a total of 3 months in 1987. It was a really enjoying trip for me as my family is Australian Chinese and related to the Sincere and The Sun Companies. The Sun Company was no longer there but the building is still there. It is the No. One Department Store now if I am not mistaken. I took a day off and walked along Nanjing Road all the way to the Bund. I also stopped by the Peace Hotel.

      I used to visit various Friendship Stores and Curio Shops. I almost bought some items from there. In those years, these art objects have export licenses and can be taken out of China. Some of these would probably worth tens if not hundred times now.
      Attachment 161098
    1. smsgator's Avatar
      smsgator -
      Quote Originally Posted by chompx2 View Post
      There are a few Din Tai Fung within striking distance from me. However, the first one here in So Cal is the best. That is the one in Arcadia. Stay away from the ones that are opened in the Malls. These cater to the Western folks. When the waiters and waitresses are non-Chinese and the menu is in English, stay away. I went to Din Tai Fung in Glendale and it was not that good.

      I was in Shanghai twice for a total of 3 months in 1987. It was a really enjoying trip for me as my family is Australian Chinese and related to the Sincere and The Sun Companies. The Sun Company was no longer there but the building is still there. It is the No. One Department Store now if I am not mistaken. I took a day off and walked along Nanjing Road all the way to the Bund. I also stopped by the Peace Hotel.

      I used to visit various Friendship Stores and Curio Shops. I almost bought some items from there. In those years, these art objects have export licenses and can be taken out of China. Some of these would probably worth tens if not hundred times now.
      Attachment 161098
      I won't eat at a Chinese restaurant if more than 10% of the customers inside are white.

      Sent from my LGMP450 using HoFo mobile app
    1. chompx2's Avatar
      chompx2 -
      Quote Originally Posted by smsgator View Post
      I've been to Din Tai Fung in Taipei and in Shanghai....
      It dawned on me while Din Tai Fung is famous for its Xiao Long Bao, Xiao Long Bao is not a Taiwanese Food. It came from Jiangnan area, in China. Shanghai is one of the biggest cities in that area. It is ironic that Din Tai Fung from Taipei to open up a restaurant in Shanghai serving Xiao Long Bao.
    1. NotABiot's Avatar
      NotABiot -
      Quote Originally Posted by smsgator View Post
      I won't eat at a Chinese restaurant if more than 10% of the customers inside are white.

      Sent from my LGMP450 using HoFo mobile app
      If I had that policy, I would never eat at a Chinese restaurant. just about the only East Asians I ever see in my area are those *working* in Chinese restaurants.
    1. NotABiot's Avatar
      NotABiot -
      That's not the only country where the common name is different from the official name. The country of Macedonia for years officially called itself "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" in order to placate aggressive nationalists in its southern neighbor. But just about everyone has called it Macedonia.
    1. smsgator's Avatar
      smsgator -
      Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
      ACurrie, you said "and by the likes of Air Canada and Marriott Hotels bowing to mainland pressure and listing Taiwanese destinations as part of the PRC. But make no mistake"

      The web site for Marriott Hotels clearly distinguishes the nations of eastern Asia. I am not sure where they bowed, but not on the hotel search map: it shows Taiwan as a country, same as Philippines, Cambodia, and Indonesia. There is an entirely separate designation for China's many provinces like Hainan. The separate texts lists for hotels in each country in Asia also list China as being separate from the Taiwan listings.
      Look what shows up on Marriott's web site when you search for Taiwan:

      Attachment 161112

      I'd be concerned that there might be a city in China named "Taiwan" and that I'd be booking a room there instead of in Taiwan R.O.C.. But of course I would not book a Marriott anywhere because of their kowtowing.

      Plenty of locally owned, non-flag hotels in Taiwan to stay at. I've stayed many times at The Regent (well that is a flag hotel, but the company selected it), whose web site https://www.regenthotels.com/ solves the whole problem by just listing hotels by city name. I've stayed at The Brother which is right next to where my company's office once was, http://www.brotherhotel.com.tw/en/aboutus.php. When I was paying, I stayed at the Y Hotel, which was just fine too https://www.ymcahotel.tw .

      Similarly, in China, I'll stay at locally owned hotels.

      After what happened in China yesterday I may forego any visits to the PRC for a while.

      But I will be happy to visit "Taiwan Porridge Kingdom" which also shows up in the Marriott search for Taiwan.